D&D General No Fixed Location -- dynamically rearranging items, monsters, and other game elements in the interests of storytelling

[The Crimson Binome]

It's not cheating. It's a perfectly valid way to GM.

It goes against the rules in the game. "Ignoring the rules of the game" is a way to play, but I wouldn't claim that it's valid.

Not everything needs to be a secret. If you want the PCs to know or find something, then there's no reason to leave it up to chance that it is found. Not everything needs a skill check or similar to be discovered.

If you want the PCs to know or find something, then the world should be constructed in such a way that the check is not uncertain. Because if it is uncertain - if the DC is more than one point higher than the relevant check bonus - then we have rules for resolving that.

 

[Prakriti]

It's cheating, plain and simple. You are biased toward a specific outcome, for whatever reason, so you secretly alter reality in order to force that outcome.

I would never play in a game if I knew the DM was doing that. It defeats the entire point of having free will.

I can understand this sentiment, and I do think there are certain game modes where re-arranging on the fly is breaking the social contract. Classic dungeon-crawls, for example. There, it really is all about the players' choices and playing things where they lie.

But the more important plot and story are to to campaign, the more acceptable I think it is to re-arrange and improvise. As long as players understand what they're getting into, I don't see it as a bad thing. Sometimes players want to play characters in an epic story and don't mind if the DM shapes the world around them in order to tell that story. If it stops them from getting stuck, bored, or lost, then they probably prefer it that way. Some players don't want to get stuck, bored, or lost any more than they want to watch the characters in a movie sit around waiting for the next plot point to drop.

 

[Umbran]

It goes against the rules in the game.

Do the rules say, "The GM must have a fixed map, and populated map key, and that may not change during a session of play?"

Because, if they don't say that... I think you're incorrect.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

@ Saelorn - So you're in charge of how to play the game? I can't believe no one told me that. All this time I've been using the parts of the rules I liked and devising fixes for what I don't. So much wasted time. Next time I'm not sure what to do with my game I'll PM you and you can tell what's kosher or not.

Ask your players. They're the only ones who might care.

It's no skin off my nose, if you're a cheater, as long as you don't come into some public forum and try to corrupt the newbies.

 

[Monayuris]

Rewarding Exploration
The party is investigating an old house with a lot of fireplaces in it. Only one fireplace has any treasure inside (behind a loose brick). It would suck if the players investigated one fireplace, found nothing, and were discouraged from investigating any others. So instead of putting treasure inside only one of the fireplaces, the treasure now has no fixed location. It's inside whichever fireplace the party happens to investigate first.

This does not actually reward exploration.

It's not really a reward to be handed treasure through no actual effort. Exploration is rewarded when players make a choice and make a deduction that there may be something of value in the fireplaces.

If the players decide not to search additional fireplaces, it is their choice to not do so and not finding the treasure is the consequence of their choice.

A better way to do this is to put the treasure in one fireplace and then add a clue or feature that may logically lead to the players wanting to investigate it. For example, describe a small pile of loose stone (debris from moving the brick) or describe one brick to be slightly uneven, or some other feature unique to this fireplace that may suggest further inspection.

Advancing the Plot
The party doesn't know it, but there's an important document inside the dungeon that will turn their world upside down and send them on their next adventure. Since finding the document is imperative to the plot, giving it a fixed location wouldn't necessarily be the best idea -- the party might never find it. So instead, the document is wherever the players happen to look. Do they search an old desk? Papers. Do they find a treasure chest? Papers. Do they search someone's body? Papers. It might seem ham-fisted, but it's better than having to nudge the party in the right direction later.

If the document is integral to there being an adventure, I would just give the players the document at the beginning. I don't see the point of going through the motions.

Imparting Information
The party is struggling through a dungeon that ends with a fireball-casting wizard. You want the players to know what they're up against so they can prepare accordingly (by preparing absorb elements, boosting their Dex saves, acquiring fire resistance, etc.). There's a clue in part of the dungeon -- maybe a large scorch mark that any Arcana-proficient character can recognize as the aftermath of a fireball spell. But if you want the party to have this information, then why leave it up to chance? Drop it into any room that the party happens to visit.

Telegraphing threats is a good tool in the DM arsenal. However, I wouldn't just drop it into any room the party happens to visit. I would instead think about where this wizard lairs, and put the marks in a logical location. The room should be somewhere that can allow the players to be able to make an educated guess as far as where the wizard may be located. It should give them the ability to decide to avoid the area or go wizard hunting.

So, what would you call this sort of thing? Is it fudging? And what do you think of it as a DMing tool? Is it wrong? Is it good? Do you ever do it yourself, or is it against your DMing code? Let me know!

The main point to this is that if you want to just throw stuff in non-fixed locations, be careful to do so such that it does not invalidate player choices or eliminate consequences.

I recommend checking out this blog. It has a fantastic description and analysis of your proposals. Personally, I consider this blog to be required reading for anyone who wants to DM.

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Blog has gotten pretty big. . . I'm reorganizing the index to make it more useful (Updated 8/22/14) If you like the blog, subscribe to t...

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[TheCosmicKid]

It goes against the rules in the game.

(a) Quote the specific rule in the game it goes against. Explicitly, not in your interpretation. Because you said "plain and simple", so the violation should be pretty, well, plain and simple.

(b) Explain how "The D&D rules... aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game" (DMG p.4) doesn't override whatever rule problem you think exists.

 

[iserith]

It's no skin off my nose, if you're a cheater, as long as you don't come into some public forum and try to corrupt the newbies.

That's pretty much the only reason I'm here. There's no convincing veterans of anything.

 

[Fenris-77]

Ask your players. They're the only ones who might care.

It's no skin off my nose, if you're a cheater, as long as you don't come into some public forum and try to corrupt the newbies.

And welcome to my ignore list, I don't have time for this level of ignorance.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:
Before this escalates... let us be mindful of the rhetoric, everyone.

 

[TwoSix]

And welcome to my ignore list, I don't have time for this level of ignorance.

It's good to see 3 different bans on RPG.net for this kind of behavior hasn't taken the wind out of Saelorn's sails. Shine on, you crazy diamond.