No Iterative Attacks in D&D

[Baby Samurai]

The SWSE preview double attack feat looks like something we can use (except that it requires two rolls, why not just make the two attacks with one attack and damage roll?).

I guess so you can attack two different adjacent enemies?

 

[Baby Samurai]

I believe they are still keeping the full attack action in Saga.

But instead of iterative attacks they have feats such as Double Attack, which lets you strike two different opponents but each attack is at BAB –5. I wonder if there is a Triple Attack feat – 3 attacks at –5 BAB, or maybe 3 attacks at –10 BAB?

And there will still be some form of TWF.

I myself would like them to get rid of the full attack action, period, and just have Standard, Move, Swift, and Immediate actions.

And if a character or monster wanted to use its full array of attacks it could sacrifice a Swift action.

So it could take a Move action to move up to you, sacrifice a Swift action to get all of its attacks as a Standard action.

 

[Flynn]

And if a character or monster wanted to use its full array of attacks it could sacrifice a Swift action.

From what I recall, the Powerful Swing feat (-2 atk, +1 die damage) in the SECR preview mentioned that it would cost a Standard and two Swift actions to get the bonus. If that's the standard, I'd think once or twice before granting a full array of attacks on just a Standard and one Swift action.

Just a thought,
Flynn

 

[Sacrificial Lamb]

You guys overcomplicate things. Do this:

For every 10 points of Base Attack Bonus, you receive a bonus attack. That's it.

Johan, a 10th level fighter with 16 Strength can attack with his sword twice per round at +13 (+3 STR, +10 BAB). At 20th level, he'll have THREE attacks, at +23 (+3 STR, +20 BAB). There you go. It's simple. Add any necessary modifications for feats, and you're done.

 

[Flynn]

You guys overcomplicate things. Do this:

For every 10 points of Base Attack Bonus, you receive a bonus attack. That's it.

Johan, a 10th level fighter with 16 Strength can attack with his sword twice per round at +13 (+3 STR, +10 BAB). At 20th level, he'll have THREE attacks, at +23 (+3 STR, +20 BAB). There you go. It's simple. Add any necessary modifications for feats, and you're done.

Hey, Lamb, welcome aboard!

Now, your suggestion sounds a lot like an iterative attack sequence, doesn't it? Not quite what the thread is looking for, but I appreciate you pitching in your two cents on this.

Any thoughts on Baby Samurai's issues/concepts that might help him reach his goals?

Thanks,
Flynn

 

[Baby Samurai]

I'd think once or twice before granting a full array of attacks on just a Standard and one Swift action.

I totally agree.

The full round action definitely still exists in Saga, as Preview 7 has proved.

When Luke used Double Attack (full round action - attack twice at BAB –5) he could do nothing else that turn.

They have got rid of the 5 ft. step, but replaced it with a new withdraw mechanic: You may withdraw as a Move action at half of your speed, but you must end the withdraw in a non-threatened square.

I could see this bringing the sought after movement to combat I've been looking for. Characters could attack (standard action) then withdraw (move action) to higher ground or what have you and still have a Swift action left.

Also, I see lots of monsters and characters readying and delaying actions until opponents close in and other tactical options.

I think people are worried that if you take a full round action to Double Attack (attack twice at BAB –5) you can do nothing else that turn, not even a 5 ft. step, but I have a feeling in play this could be very cool and cinematic.

I will most likely be porting this over to my D&D campaigns.

 

[Baby Samurai]

Now, back to no iterative attacks, and the only way to get extra attacks being feats such as Cleave, Double Attack (full round action, 2 attacks at BAB –5), Dual Weapon Mastery, and Whirlwind Attack etc.

I think the Saga rule of adding half of your character level to damage, and 2 x Str bonus when wielding a weapon two-handed, and 1 x str bonus with your off-hand weapon when two-weapon fighting is a good idea.

So if a monster wants to use all of its natural weapons it would have to take a Full Round Action, and could not move an inch.

Maybe the monsters primary natural attack should be at –5 (like it is for PC's) not just the secondary natural attacks when taking a Full Round Action to attack?

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Maybe the monsters primary natural attack should be at –5 (like it is for PC's) not just the secondary natural attacks when taking a Full Round Action to attack?

Probably.
I'm concerned that PCs won't be able to keep up with monsters if the damage bonus is only ½ level.

 

[Baby Samurai]

Probably.
I'm concerned that PCs won't be able to keep up with monsters if the damage bonus is only ½ level.

But keep in mind you only get half of your "heroic class levels" as a damage bonus, so monsters would not gain this bonus.

So basically with this system, full round/attack actions will be less common for everybody (monsters and PC's).

So if a PC is fighting an owlbear and they both choose to take a full round action to attack, the PC could attack twice with Double Attack (at BAB –5) and the owlbear could attack with 2 claws and a bite (all 3 attacks at BAB –5)

 

[Flynn]

But keep in mind you only get half of your "heroic class levels" as a damage bonus, so monsters would not gain this bonus.

So basically with this system, full round/attack actions will be less common for everybody (monsters and PC's).

So if a PC is fighting an owlbear and they both choose to take a full round action to attack, the PC could attack twice with Double Attack (at BAB –5) and the owlbear could attack with 2 claws and a bite (all 3 attacks at BAB –5)

Personally, based on how things appear to be going, I'd suggest that when a creature attacks with more than one natural attack, that it takes a full round action.

As for attack penalties, assuming that the TWF serves as the base, then you take a -10 penalty on all attack rolls (instead of the usual -5 base that you see for secondary attacks with standard monsters. For translation purposes, you would subtract only 5 from those secondary attacks, since they already have a -5 penalty in the SRD). Creatures with the multiattack feat would only subtract -5 from the base attack value for each attack. (SRD creatures would be -5 from the primary attack and -3 from secondary attacks, since the secondary attacks each have a -2 penalty due to the multiattack feat).

The above is my "worse case scenario" thought on multiple natural weapon attacks.

Now, personally, I wouldn't take the TWF as my basis, though. I would probably do the -5 for all attacks, and a -2 for all attacks if the creature has the multiattack feat. Thus, you only need to modify the primary natural weapon's attack value in each case, and the rest of the SRD remains usable as is.

Hope this helps,
Flynn