No more leap of the Clouds?

[Jhamin]

Did I just miss it or has Leap of the Clouds vanished from the Monk powers list?

I can't seem to find it.

 

[Pax]

Nope, you didn't miss it; it's not there! The entire list of class abilities is:

[color=white]
1st	Bonus feat, flurry of blows, unarmed strike
2nd	Bonus feat, evasion
3rd	Still mind
4th	Ki strike (magic),  slow fall 20 ft.
5th	Purity of body
6th	Bonus feat,  slow fall 30 ft.
7th	Wholeness of body
8th	Slow fall 40 ft.
9th	Improved evasion
10th	Ki strike (lawful),  slow fall 50 ft.
11th	Diamond body,  greater flurry
12th	Abundant step,  slow fall 60 ft.
13th	Diamond soul
14th	Slow fall 70 ft.
15th	Quivering palm
16th	Ki strike (adamantine), slow fall 80 ft.
17th	Timeless body, tongue of the sun and moon
18th	Slow fall 90 ft.
19th	Empty body
20th	Perfect self,  slow fall any distance
[/color]

It's not in the description of class abilities either.

WTH were they thinking? Leap of the Clouds is EVER so much more monk-thematic, IMO, than Abundant Step ever was ... !!!

 

[Pax]

To heck with Leap of the Clouds.

Has anyone else noticed, they took away the Monks superior Unarmed Attack progression ... ?!?

Granted, flurry was improved, but -- not REALLY. We go from a Base Unarmed Attack [3/0] of +15/+12/+9/+6/+3 to a Greater Flurry of +15/+15/+15/+10/+5

A tiny improvement in some respects, but ... it used to be,a Monk could Flurry of Blows for three attacks, starting at 6th level (Unarmed BAB of +4/+1; flurry for +2/+2/-1). Now, a monk can only do similar at 8th level, for +5/+5/+0.

The 3.0 monk, at 8th level, can flurry for +4/+4/+1.

Overall, Monks have been weakened in terms of ability to throw multiple attacks out each round. IMO, this is a change which negatively impacts the class.

 

[Li Shenron]

Leap of the Clouds: At 7th level or higher, a monk's jumping distance (vertical or horizontal) is not limited according to her height.

In 3.5 there is not any more limitation to Jump according to someone's height. There is only a vertical reach in the description, but it's the "height the creature can reach without jumping".

 

[Witness]

Also, speed effects Jump checks, I believe +4 to Jump checks for each +10 of base speed over 30. Thus at high levels, Monk's have a very substantial bonus to jump checks.

 

[Caliban]

To heck with Leap of the Clouds.

Has anyone else noticed, they took away the Monks superior Unarmed Attack progression ... ?!?

Granted, flurry was improved, but -- not REALLY. We go from a Base Unarmed Attack [3/0] of +15/+12/+9/+6/+3 to a Greater Flurry of +15/+15/+15/+10/+5

A tiny improvement in some respects, but ... it used to be,a Monk could Flurry of Blows for three attacks, starting at 6th level (Unarmed BAB of +4/+1; flurry for +2/+2/-1). Now, a monk can only do similar at 8th level, for +5/+5/+0.

The 3.0 monk, at 8th level, can flurry for +4/+4/+1.

Overall, Monks have been weakened in terms of ability to throw multiple attacks out each round. IMO, this is a change which negatively impacts the class.

Err... the attack bonuses seem to be better in 3.5 than 3.0 at the levels you mention. And the max number of attacks is the same.

 

[Pax]

Err... the attack bonuses seem to be better in 3.5 than 3.0 at the levels you mention. And the max number of attacks is the same.

See, here's the problem. Core only, the 3.5 monk, using flurry of blows, gets:

+15/+15/+15/+10/+5 ... 5 attacks.

Core only, the 3.0 monk using flurry of blows gets:

+13/+13/+10/+7/+4/+1 ... 6 attacks.

Adding in the Lightning Fists feat form S&F, the 3.0 monk could get:

+10/+10/+10/+7/+4/+1/-2 ... 7 attacks.

Thus, in 3.5, the monks per-attack bonus has increased, but, their theoretical maximum number of attacks has dropped off. For some monks (I admit, non-Core), this can be significant; for example, a Monk(10)/Tattooed Monk(10) in an OA campaign, with the Spider Tattoo, loses two chances per round to make his foes save versus his poisonous touch/blow. With the Tiger tattoo, that's also 1d6 damage per blow he's missing (not to mentionhis base damage).

 

[LGodamus]

like the monk would even miss those last attacks...it was nicknamed "flurry of misses" for a reason you know.

 

[Pax]

like the monk would even miss those last attacks...it was nicknamed "flurry of misses" for a reason you know.

First attack ... "reezing the Lifeblood"; *poof*, a paralysed foe (STr 0, Dex 0, unable to even twitch). How can you miss him, her, or it then ... ?

No, it's not guaranteed. But those extra attacks can be useful nonetheless. Besides .... a 20 always hits.

 

[Kark001]

Why dont you just go and petition WotC for a
+15 / +15 / +15 / +15 / +15 / +15
attack progression right out of the way?

Seriously, I take the new monk attack table over the old one any time.
Btw, if you have managed to *freeze* your opponent to 0 str, 0 dex, you should just coup de grace him.