D&D 4E No more reprints of the 4E core books?

[Greatwyrm]

What's more likely is that an updated PHB will be printed out that comes with the DMG and MM.

Hmmm... perhaps if they considered some sort of Compendium of the general Rules?


Honestly, I think WotC's only real crime since the start of 4e is a zero improvement in the communication with customers. The info on Essentials is there, but you have to go looking for it. If they'd handled this like the previews for the PHB3 they did in Dragon, this would have been a lot smoother.

 

[ggroy]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I still have the books, and the WotC gestapo won't come take them from me. The fact of the matter is that they promised there would not be a 4.5.

Always a bad idea to take marketing and PR people at their word and their promises, whether it is in business or politics.

These people are paid to spin and lie, for a living.

 

[ggroy]

Are you so sure that's where I heard it first?

Nah. Was just poking at ggroy's assumption.

I was asleep when this question was asked and answered.

(Many times zones away from Denmark).

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Always a bad idea to take marketing and PR people at their word and their promises, whether it is in business or politics.

It's also a bad idea to allow confirmation bias to be the determining factor in whether or not you believe them. Look at real evidence, not rumor. Right now there isn't any. You don't think mana nation has a vested interest in generating page hits by posting a rumor that could be using the conversations on this forum as their "source" for all we know? No rep in reliable D&D rumors. We do have some anecdotal reports from game store owners, but as a class, they are hideously misinformed.

Now, here is the kicker. WotC have publicly implied that the PH, DMG, and MM will go out of print. They mention the Essentials line as "Evergreen" and that it will stay in print. This implies that the other D&D books won't. The question is when, and will they release the classes and other info in a new dead tree format.

This is my unfounded guess part. I think Wizards will repackage the PH 1 Fighter, the Warlord and such into one new volume that drops problematic powers, and contains all errata. The book will not be a traditional reprint, as it will not reprint the basic game rules.

The best part of the "compatibilty" tizzy is that only one build of one class has seen strong incompatibility concerns. Mage is as compatible as Arcane power. Warpriest has a little incompatibility with Strength cleric, but not too bad. I think it will be baconlicious if it turns out the slayer uses the standard power progression.

 

[ggroy]

It's also a bad idea to allow confirmation bias to be the determining factor in whether or not you believe them.

True. It's unfortunate how it's easy to fall into the mindset of only finding information that confirms one own biases, and deemphasizing or outright ignoring contradictory information.

 

[DracoSuave]

It's also a bad idea to allow confirmation bias to be the determining factor in whether or not you believe them. Look at real evidence, not rumor. Right now there isn't any. You don't think mana nation has a vested interest in generating page hits by posting a rumor that could be using the conversations on this forum as their "source" for all we know? No rep in reliable D&D rumors. We do have some anecdotal reports from game store owners, but as a class, they are hideously misinformed.

This.


If wizards designed Essentials to be D&D4.5, they'd be marketing it as such.

They'd be marketing as a replacement to the old three-book set, they'd be damn sure to get that point across so that you will pay your money to grab it.

They wouldn't be marketing books in the old vien like Psionic Power, they wouldn't be teasing a new campaign setting designed in the old vien like Dark Sun, they'd be making sure that every bit of the Essentials would be letting you know it's the new way of doing things and that everything from now on will be going in that direction.

Instead... they're telling people that it's compatible with the base system, that it's a good entry point into the base system, that it includes some character variants that are different but are just fine with the base system...

...in other words, every single bit of marketing juice involving Essentials is subtly hinting that you buy the base system. "You don't have to... but why not?" is how Essentials is being plugged if you bother to read the marketing for it with a single -shred- of critical thought.

Ergo, it is reasonable to conclude that marketing is trying to use Essentials to create interest in old product, and what company bothers to do that if they did not continue planning to offer said old product?

If you're gonna be a cynic, at least use facts in your cynicism. This fear and loathing and sky is falling panic is stupid.

 

[Festivus]

Are you so sure that's where I heard it first?

Sitting in their warehouse or sitting in the distribution chain... little difference. If the distributors say "Hey, we aren't going to order any more PHB1 books because I have 1000 sitting on the shelves here" is the same net effect. In fact, I'd argue that one of the posts linked there makes it seem that is the case. The distributor telling the FLGS "Hey, you better order these because they are out of print now" is exactly what I would say to a FLGS if I wanted to move product.

PHB1 is well established by now, it's not like there is going to be a mad rush for additional copies. My FLGS has one sitting in the used book section still unsold after 3 months... and that's got a steep discount attached.

I suspect that the rules compendium will take it's place... being less expensive, shorter turn around times on production and smaller print runs. It's a way to be more nimble and not take as much risk.

 

[ggroy]

In fact, I'd argue that one of the posts linked there makes it seem that is the case. The distributor telling the FLGS "Hey, you better order these because they are out of print now" is exactly what I would say to a FLGS if I wanted to move product.

Wonder if any hobby game distributors are offering gaming stores a discount on the 4E core books they still have in the warehouse.

 

[IronWolf]

If wizards designed Essentials to be D&D4.5, they'd be marketing it as such.

Would they though? After the uproar from 3.0 to 3.5? I would think any marketing department worth their salt would do all they could to make sure Essentials didn't look like 4.5, even if it accomplished that bump in revision.

They'd be marketing as a replacement to the old three-book set, they'd be damn sure to get that point across so that you will pay your money to grab it.

Or they just bank on there being enough new content to make it worth buying and sell people on that. This reduces the risk of them alienating people by doing a move like 3.0 to 3.5 was, a second time.

Instead... they're telling people that it's compatible with the base system, that it's a good entry point into the base system, that it includes some character variants that are different but are just fine with the base system...

Except they might not be selling the core books of this base system anymore. Of course we don't know that yet, but again, any marketing department worth their salary is going to work to spin this as not a new revision as 3.5 was simply to avoid repeating that firestorm again.

All rumors at this point anyways from a single source. So a lot of speculation is happening. But really, is a 4.5 backwards compatible revision really all that bad?

I don't play 4e, but why let this turn into warring between 4e players? Enjoy the new content, enjoy the matured rules. There is so much errata to the core initial release stuff, do people really want it out on the shelves? It seems even if this is 4.5 in sheep's clothing that WotC is at least making an effort to not obsolete a large amount of material in the process and just make what they consider improvements to the rules for the enjoyment of the people playing the system.

 

[ggroy]

Or they just bank on there being enough new content to make it worth buying and sell people on that. This reduces the risk of them alienating people by doing a move like 3.0 to 3.5 was, a second time.

This would perhaps be similar to the record company strategy of re-releasing older music cds, with extra tracks added in.