D&D 4E No more reprints of the 4E core books?

[ExploderWizard]

Suppose it is true. Big deal. WOTC can sell what it wants when it wants. We as customers are not entitled to having specific products in production forever. Those who have the original core books can still use them. WOTC isn't sending secret troops to confiscate your older edition materials. Those who are uninterested in moving forward with Essentials can keep right on playing original 4E. No worries.

 

[Mengu]

I don't know if the rumor is true or not, but I don't really mind if they discontinue book prints after a year, or really, after they get in CB. I'm done with a player resource book once that happens. So they can discontinue MP, MP2, DP, AP, PP, AV, and AV2 as far as I'm concerned. Same with MM, MM2, MM3. I'll need some more of the information from DMG and DMG2 to appear in Compendium, before I'd be ready to ditch those. Currently I still refer to them occasionally. Obviously campaign resources need to stick around for the time being, until they come up with a campaign tool that incorporates those resources as a piece of software.

DDI/CB is *the* character creation book for me. It's what we use to build characters. Once the Essentials Rule Compendium is out, there will be no need for PHB at the game table.

I think of player resource books as a preview of what will be in the character builder next month. Currently, the main reason I buy any books is because I'm impatient, and also I can lend them to players who ask to look at them, with the caveat anything they are wowed by is probably updated. It's more like an expensive magazine than an actual book that needs to stay in the library.

Once the essentials line is out, for a new player, I would not recommend them to buy a PHB, ever. I would tell them not to even bother with Player Essentials: Heroes of X. I would recommend they buy the Essentials Rules Compendium, and pay 1 month of DDI, and download the character builder. That is all they need.

 

[Imaro]

Ok, everyone is saying judge WotC on evidence and/or take them at they're word... well if you believe that essentials can't be a stealth 4.5 please take a look at this page... Current Rules Edition ... in particular this statement...

"This latest version of the rules, v.3.5, is compatible with 3rd edition D&D, but incorporates revisions and updates based on player feedback."​

So which is it...
WotC was being dishonest in their advertisement for 3.5 and thus could be just as dishonest with 4e?​

In WotC eyes...3.0 and 3.5 are compatible, like their ad says, and thus there could be major changes and WotC still consider "esentials" and the old core "compatible" in a 3.0 to 3.5 sense?​

Either way I don't think people should be so quick to try and jump all over those who are cautious, or even cynical about WotC's claims.​

 

[MrMyth]

3.0 ---- > 3.5 you bought new books for updated rules. 3.0 not longer reprinted.

Do you see analogies? I do.

Sorta. Assuming this is happening (which I'm not sold on), it isn't quite the same thing. 3.0 to 3.5, you needed to buy the updated rules even if you had the old versions.

With this, if you have the old versions of the rules from the PHB/DMG... you don't need the Rules Compendium. You've already got everything in it. It might be slightly better organized with some decent FAQs and some bits of current errata, but existing players don't need to buy it. New players will, instead of buying the old books. Fair enough.

Of course, the snag in this is what happens to the options in the core books, rather than the mechanics. Is the Warlord gone forever, in other words? And again, the answer is no - new players can get access to it via DDI.

This isn't to say this doesn't potentially bug me. But it is a completely different situation than 3.5. In 3.5, existing players had to buy new versions of the same rulebooks to stay up to date. With this, existing players don't need to buy anything - their PHBs remain up to date even if they are out of print.

However, new players would be getting driven towards DDI, rather than printed books, in order to get access to the same content. This would strike me not as the 3.5 drive to get players to rebuy existing content, but instead a new approach to make the digital line even more prominent.

Not the end of the world, especially if there still is new printed content being released. But still... worrisome, at least for me.

Worrisome, admittedly, but not in any way comparable with 3.5.

 

[MrMyth]

In WotC eyes...3.0 and 3.5 are compatible, like their ad says, and thus there could be major changes and WotC still consider "esentials" and the old core "compatible" in a 3.0 to 3.5 sense?

They might have been compatible in WotC's eyes, but they weren't in my eyes. That statement was WotC was either born of deception or idiocy - at least, to me. On the other hand, I've been told by various people that the two were compatible in their games, so maybe I just didn't try hard enough. As it was, it didn't bother me - 3.5 was an improved game, and I was happy for the changes it made.

That said, I'm even happier with Essentials, which isn't making any such changes at all, which isn't forcing me to rebuy any books, and thus isn't comparable to the 3.5 situation in any reasonable way.

 

[MrMyth]

I love 4E. Every game that my group plays that's NOT 4E makes us want to go back to it. Every book that comes out we anxiously await. We can hardly contain ourselves waiting for the Dark Sun 4E books. I have no desire to play the watered down version of it that Essentials appears to be. I'm no WotC hater. I've spent more thousands of dollars than I care to think about on 2E, 3.xE, and 4E. I've been well-pleased with most of the changes that the line has gone through over the years and have gladly spent money on most every book in the lines from 3.xE to 4E. This isn't about being "forced" to buy new books. This is about support.

See, I can get that concern. But... if this is an issue of support, than isn't that an issue for any new books being released, rather than an issue of whether they stop production for existing books?

If the new books are fully compatible with your PHB, then aren't they continuing to provide support for you?

To me, even assuming this rumor is true, it strikes me much more as a way to drive new players to DDI than any sort of issue for existing players who already have these books. Now, one can feel free to get upset if they are concerned about too much of the game going digital, but I don't think would be any reason to get upset over this situation as somehow representing a new edition.

 

[Imaro]

That said, I'm even happier with Essentials, which isn't making any such changes at all, which isn't forcing me to rebuy any books, and thus isn't comparable to the 3.5 situation in any reasonable way.

Huh? Did you get an advance copy or something? Because otherwise, just like with 3.0 to 3.5 all you got is what they are telling you... how is this any different from that ad on their site?

 

[coyote6]

WOTC isn't sending secret troops to confiscate your older edition materials.

How else would you explain the squad of ninjas I found rifling through my boxes of gaming books this morning? They were sure looking for something, and it wasn't GURPS Middle Ages I. I was almost late for work, fighting them off took so much time. And I've got a heck of a mess to clean up later -- I'm hoping they have that disintegrating corpse trick implemented.

Thank god for the Inverse Ninja Law.

 

[DracoSuave]

Ok, everyone is saying judge WotC on evidence and/or take them at they're word... well if you believe that essentials can't be a stealth 4.5 please take a look at this page... Current Rules Edition ... in particular this statement...

"This latest version of the rules, v.3.5, is compatible with 3rd edition D&D, but incorporates revisions and updates based on player feedback."​

So which is it...
WotC was being dishonest in their advertisement for 3.5 and thus could be just as dishonest with 4e?​

In WotC eyes...3.0 and 3.5 are compatible, like their ad says, and thus there could be major changes and WotC still consider "esentials" and the old core "compatible" in a 3.0 to 3.5 sense?​

Either way I don't think people should be so quick to try and jump all over those who are cautious, or even cynical about WotC's claims.​

3.5 IS compatible with 3.0.

However, let's do a history check here. 3.5 was -marketed- as a replacement for 3.0. It was marketed as a complete revision of the product line.

In fact, the books even say 'revised edition' on them.

3.5 WAS being sold as... well the .5 of 3ed edition. Wziards did not attempt any duplicity in that manner, they said flat out, they're putting out a revised edition, and future material will be based solely on that revised edition, and not 3.0.

Essentials is not.

I hear a lot of 'the sky is falling' but I don't see any -evidence- of it. Instead I see people going 'Companies lie all the time! So therefore when Wizards says it is not a complete revision it must therefore be a complete revision!' based on the fact that years before 3.5 came out they said to someone internally that 3.5 wouldn't be a revision....

...meaning you're being paranoid and not logical.

When Wizards wants to release 4.5, you will KNOW it because they'll probably call it 4.5, and they'll announce it a year in advance and start showcasing it at conventions and begin marketting hype.... exactly like they always have done because they are a successful company and such things lead to successful launches of flagship products.

Hell, Dark Sun's getting more of that treatment than Essentials... maybe Dark Sun is 4.5!

Oh, wait, Magic the Gathering's latest set has more hype than Essentials, maybe Magic the Gathering's 4.5!

Rubbish arguments. Come with something other than fear and loathing... something -substantial-, something -concrete-. Some piece of marketing we can look at and go 'yes, that DOES sound like it.' Your collective paranoia is NOT evidence of anything more than an opportunity to make it big in the tinfoil hat business.

 

[drothgery]

3.5 IS compatible with 3.0.

However, let's do a history check here. 3.5 was -marketed- as a replacement for 3.0. It was marketed as a complete revision of the product line.

In fact, the books even say 'revised edition' on them.

3.5 WAS being sold as... well the .5 of 3ed edition. Wziards did not attempt any duplicity in that manner, they said flat out, they're putting out a revised edition, and future material will be based solely on that revised edition, and not 3.0.

Essentials is not.

On the other hand, Skills & Powers was pretty widely considered to be "2.5", even though it was never marketed as such. If people has thought along those lines back then, Unearthed Arcana would have been considered 1.5.