No Random treasure !?!?...

[JRRNeiklot]

Magic shops are the stupidest thing to ever infest a role playing game. Unless you're playing Harry Potter the rpg.

 

[malraux]

One of the things 4e seems to have done is to look at all the stuff that gets handwaved by many/most groups and make that the default. Fully healing after a night's rest for example. In practice, that's what groups do (because the cleric burns the last of his spell or taps people with the wand of lesser vigor or whatever) so why not just make that how things work. The get random loot, sell/trade it, and get what you really want cycle is another good example.

 

[malraux]

Magic shops are the stupidest thing to ever infest a role playing game. Unless you're playing Harry Potter the rpg.

Because no one would ever want to buy or sell magical items?

 

[AllisterH]

Magic shops are the stupidest thing to ever infest a role playing game. Unless you're playing Harry Potter the rpg.

Um, again, have people actually looked at the rules?

4E actually encourages people to stick with their items (1/5 selling) and to make their own (110-140% markup on items).

Furthermore, given that a PC only NEEDS 3 slots filled to be effective, I think the 4E treasure system gives you the best of both worlds.

Like I've said before, use the Level +4 item as a random roll and the other Level + x items as the wishlist.

Really, why do people seem to jump to the most extreme position?

 

[Delta]

I would walk away from the table of any DM who threw piles of unusable crap at us under the guise of "being clever and in control of his campaign" and never look back.

Sorry.

But I would.

I'm not trying to be offensive here, really I am not, it's just late and I'm grumpy...

Nothing to be sorry about. There's obviously no way you'd be invited to any of my friends' games in the first place.

 

[jdrakeh]

I don't see any reason why the DM couldn't use wistlists to set up dungeons and quests so the players can earn the things they want.

The problem really isn't the wishlists -- it's the old Viking Hat attitude that giving the players anything that makes them happy is bad, wrong, fun. This school of DMing teaches that the fulfillment of the DM's vision is the sole reason for playing the game and that players having any input at all in how the game unfolds is wrong.

 

[Wormwood]

"When I close my eyes and imagine what Mangar the Cruel looks like in a few levels, I see him striding across a corpse-strewn field, crimson energy playing across the blade of his hellforged greataxe. Is there some way of gaining power from the blood of those he kills? Like a bloodstone ring or something? Also, I love the idea of black armor with razor-sharp edges that cut anyone who comes too near to him in battle. Anyway, that's the kind of stuff that would help define my character."​

A wish list is what you make of it.

Personally, I'm thrilled that 4e accomodates my DMing style---namely, let the players craft their characters and the game world as much as possible.

 

[gizmo33]

Magic shops are the stupidest thing to ever infest a role playing game.

Yea - if you want to trade your magic beans for a cow you should be forced to do it on the side of the road rather than in a market.

 

[redcard]

Yea - if you want to trade your magic beans for a cow you should be forced to do it on the side of the road rather than in a market.

My problem isn't with trading beans for the cow.

My problem is walking into a walmart like store and saying to the clerk:

"Oh, yes. I'll have one +3 armor.. a +3 flaming sword, can I get that flaming sword in a +4 variety, actually? Oh, an order of ritual scrolls, let's see.. enchant magic item and .. oh, two raise deads.. crap, I forgot about the bag of holding."

"Very good, sir. This week is our special buy one get one free sale on scrolls, would you like to double your ritual scroll order?"

"Sure!"

"Excellent. And if you sign up for the Golden Wand credit card just this week, sir, we're offering a free enchant on any item up to a +2, can I interest you in that? It has Teleport Miles built in to the card, and can be used at a wide variety of shops."

THAT'S the kind of magic store I have problems with.

 

[jdrakeh]

THAT'S the kind of magic store I have problems with.

I don't see this thing as being an issue in D&D 4e. At least not more of an issue than it was in AD&D 1e (where magic items has specific GP values) or D&D 3x (where the entire game was built around the idea that PCs possessed and assumed number of magical items at any given time).