Blustar said:
WTF is going on here, in the DMG...Is this the first edition of D&D that doesn't include a random treasure generator?
I can't beleive some of the suggestions for handing out treasure, the worst one is this...Have your players give you a wish list (5 items) and pick an item from the list in an upcoming adventure!!! Imagine their surprise when they find the item they have on their list in an upcoming adventure...
I mean seriously what's the fun in that? OK DM these are the items aI really like, sdo something about it. Deus Ex Mechanica anyone???
I don't see D&D as a competition between the players and their DM. I see D&D as a cooperative story-telling experience. Everyone contributes.
So I like asking my players what they want to see, what they want to do, and what they want to have. And especially how they want their characters to grow.
Then I tell the story within these parameters. And sometimes I ignore, or modify, some of what the players desire. I surprise them. I twist in the good with the bad.
Everyone wins.
Blustar said:
A lot of the random stocking dungeons was to spark your imagination and find out how exactly that item got there. Then use that to inspire your story for the dungeon.
You should be able to do this even easier.
Instead of relying on a random roll to suggest an item, then wracking your brain to find that imaginative spark, now you can just scan through the list and find something yourself, something that sparks your imagination the instant you see it on the list.
Much better than randomness.
Blustar said:
Now we are just supposed to pick items that would excite your players and items they can actually use.
As opposed to the opposite, picking (randomly) items that fail to excite your players and cannot actually be used?
What's the point in unexciting unusable items?
And, if there is a point (verisimilitude perhaps), you can still pick items that are unexciting and useless by selecting them from a list.
After all, if your ideal of magic item placement includes finding some boring useless items, for the sake of verisimilitude or for the sake of appreciating the good ones even more, but you always roll randomly, you run the risk of randomly rolling a whole bunch of interesting useful items. You might accidentally (randomly) defeat your prupose by filling a dungeon with useful items and having nothing that fulfills your requirement to place some boring useless items.
Either way, why leave it up to chance? Why not just place an assortment of items that meets your ideals?
Blustar said:
So, I need to put a Warlock item in a dungeon although the story or the dungeon inhabitants might not have any probable reason to find or use these items.
No, you don't need to do this at all.
4e is suggesting you should do this, or else your warlock will begin to feel left out.
I once played a psionic character in a friend's game. He used a lot of storebought adventures, and made up a few, mostly using the DMG for treasures. I went from level 1 to level 12 and never once, not once, found a psionic item I could use. I didn't even find any psionic items I couldn't use. It was somewhat frustrating.
Blustar said:
Also there's no more ID'ing items, you just know exactly what bonus they give and power they have automatically. WTF???
The assumption is that a fighter can swing a new magic sword, whack some trees, slice a piece of leather, etc., and have a good idea whether it is sharper than his old sword.
Likewise, players can test a pair of boots to see if they walk on water, or cling to a wall, or let you walk faster, or let you jump higher, or levitate, etc.
Also the assumption is that items that must be activated often come with markings that reveal how to activate them. Maybe not so blatant as to have the command word carved into the item, but usually something the creator would be able to look at, years later, and go "oh, yeah, that's the command word". Clever adventurers would be able to hit on these clues most of the time.
Yet another assumption is that most adventurers are experts at adventuring. They put their lives at risk daily in a world full of extreme danger. Chances are, they know what they're doing. They come prepared. Part of that preparation is a lifetime of listening to stories, tales, songs of legendary heroes. These stories are full of fantastic magical items and tell how the heroes used these items to defeat their foes. Having a head full of this kind of stuff, stuff that has fascinated them since they were children, gives them all kinds of ideas as to what to expect from a newly found item.
Given those three assumptions, most clever adventurers can figure out most items fairly quickly.
And you're entirely free to give them plain, unmarked items with devious uses and require them to find out how to use them.
Blustar said:
If I ever play 4ed at the store, I will definitely ask for wish lists and then make sure none of those treasures ever make it into my games...
Now that's just mean.
Don't want to use wish lists, then don't use them.
But asking players for their wish lists then punishing them for giving you what you asked for is just plain mean.
I hope you don't have a dog...
Blustar said:
Last thing, it say in a paragraph that magic item shops are rare and whatnot and the next sentence it says that you should generally be able to find the magic item you want to buy??? Where the hell is the mystery? Seriously this is one of the few sections of the new game I can't abide buy, there is just no effing way...
Now I totally agree with you here.
The fake economy suggested in the RAW is really stupid. That's not how supply and demand works.
If an item is generally valuable, then it's easy to find a buyer who will give you fair value for it. If it is rare, limited, or relatively worthless, then it won't sell for much.
But the same time, if I can buy a sword in a market for 5,000, then I can sell that sword in that same market for 5,000. Or at least very close. I might even turn a profit.
