D&D 4E No Roleplaying XP in 4e

[BlindOgre]

To be fair, the DMG passage quoted was not about awarding extra XP, but penalizing players who didn't fulfill their class roles by making them spend extra time and money before they could level up in their class.

1e was generally less concerned with "thespianic roleplaying" and more with "player skill" -- i.e. tactics and cleverness. I'm sure we can come up with many EGG quotes which support this hypothesis.

To me, it's a bit of a half-empty/half-full thing... I usually presented it as an opportunity to optimize advancement by role-playing well, but eventually morphed it into a scaled XP reward.

 

[FadedC]

D&D Rules Cyclopedia (1991), Ch. 10, page 127:
"In the game, there are five normal ways for player charactes to acquire experience:
1. By Role-Playing Well
2. By Achieving Party Goals
3. By Defeating Monsters and Opponents
4. By Acquiring Treasure
5. By Performing Exceptional Actions

...Exceptional Role-Playing: Finally, whenever a player performs some role-playing that really impresses the DM, the DM can award him some extra experience. Such a demonstration of role-playing might be an emotional encounter with an NPC, reacting to the loss of a loved one, spontaneously composing a speech that motivates the army of NPCs and improves their mood, and so forth. If the demonstration of role-playing enlivens the game, impresses the DM, or makes for a very memorable scene, the DM may decide to give the player a bonus. The bonus given to the character should be about one twentieth the points it takes him to get from his current level to the nest. Don't use his current experience point total: use the base number... A character should not receive more than one such bonus in a single play session. even if he role-plays well throughout the session."

There are many more examples in the various rules for granting XP for role-playing. The point is that such has indeed been codified and part of the game for a very long time.

Hmmm......well I could point at that rule comes from an obscure book that is part of the D&D ruleset (as opposed to AD&D) and that the rule you quote is I believe more of a campaign advice tip as opposed to an official rule in a core rulebook.

Ultimately though I don't disagree with your overall point that other books had some rules on roleplaying xp. I think I specifically remember some nonscaling roleplaying xp in 2e which got more and more insignifcant as you leveled. I just disagree that these rules were ever used to good effect by anyone other then you and 1 or 2 other people in the world.

 

[BlindOgre]

Please show me the codified rules for roleplaying XP in 1e,2e,3e, or 3.5e.

One more reference to note that the concept has survived through 3.5, though I don't have the text to copy-paste: 3.5 DMG pg40-41 addresses story awards and roleplaying awards and what actions might result in such.

 

[Vanuslux]

Nothing is going to stop me from giving XP bonuses and penalties however I see fit. I think it's very much a personal taste sort of thing and doesn't need to be addressed in the rulebooks.

 

[Orius]

No loss.

I agree with WotC's statement. Roleplaying XP to me makes it look like one style of play is being emphasised over others. It's great if the players are the method actor types, if not there's little use for it, and it can make the players feel like they're playing "wrong". It also penalizes players who either don't like or aren't comfortable with the in-character styles of play, by denying them XP. Personally, it seems like a sort of carrot to players who'd rather do a lot of dungeon crawling and hack-n-slashing by DMs who want more amateur thespianism.

If the group wants RP awards, then the DM should feel free to hand out bonus XP as he or she sees fit; it should not be mandated in the rules. That's all that needs to be in a rulebook on this subject, along with a guideline on how much to award.

 

[BlindOgre]

Hmmm......well I could point at that rule comes from an obscure book that is part of the D&D ruleset (as opposed to AD&D) and that the rule you quote is I believe more of a campaign advice tip as opposed to an official rule in a core rulebook.

Actually, it is from the section on experience in the official rules for OD&D as cited.

Ultimately though I don't disagree with your overall point that other books had some rules on roleplaying xp. I think I specifically remember some nonscaling roleplaying xp in 2e which got more and more insignifcant as you leveled. I just disagree that these rules were ever used to good effect by anyone other then you and 1 or 2 other people in the world.

Indeed, could it be that everyone (other than myself and the 2 you mentioned) missed the point of D&D being a roleplaying game to begin with?

I admit it can be tough to maintain RP through a long campaign (especially if new players are introduced mid-stream), but if characterization is well established early on, such tends to carry through to end-game quite naturally.

My main beef is with the disdain for some of the older concepts (like RP XP) expressed by some of the developers (and certain members of the studio audience). It seems they've gradually lost touch with (or were never aware of) some of the foundational elements of the game that have since been overshadowed or left by the wayside. Of course, one could argue that if these things were left aside, it may be because they were broken or useless. Quite the contrary. It's more likely because they were less than expedient, not overly exciting or required more than a passing thought.

My main point in the original post was to see how everyone felt about one of the developers discounting one of the more significant (however obscured by the mists of time) concepts in the game. From the responses, I gather that many don't really care to reward good roleplaying with XP. This just goes a little sideways in my brain. Even so, I am perfectly happy being completely out of synch with the current consensus.

Thank you all for your input

 

[hong]

You get roleplaying XP in 4E.

You do not get showboating XP in 4E.

This is as it should be. Showboating is its own reward.

 

[jmucchiello]

Hmmm......well I could point at that rule comes from an obscure book that is part of the D&D ruleset (as opposed to AD&D)

Wait, wait, wait. Obscure? The rules encyclopedia is/was obscure?

"As opposed to AD&D?" Have you noticed AD&D has been off the market since around 1999? There is nothing about RC D&D that makes it less "D&D" than 1e or 2e AD&D.

I just had to pick this nit, sorry.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

The reason I don't like it, is well... It doesn't make sense. Why does a character suddenly gain more XP because a player is a better RPer?

I prefer giving out extra XP at the end of a session for monumental tasks, or revelations the characters have had in-game. Thus showing them learning/growing. This while does have a RP-edge isn't entirely dependent on who can RP the best since what happens in-game and how it is described out is two different things.

Or have things which give in-game bonuses because a choose a player made, not how well it was RPed, ie: the Virtue/Vice system from WoD and its Willpower regeneration.

I don't think not having RPing XP makes the game any less of a Roleplaying game, since well. It just doesn't, if your a good roleplayer your a good roleplayer if your not your not. Why punish those who aren't?

 

[BlindOgre]

If the group wants RP awards, then the DM should feel free to hand out bonus XP as he or she sees fit; it should not be mandated in the rules. That's all that needs to be in a rulebook on this subject, along with a guideline on how much to award.

I agree completely. Such guidance should be in the rulebook. Not so much for us vets, but for the new players and DMs. I think the absence of such (as indicated by the originally quoted comment) would be a sad omission.