D&D 4E No Roleplaying XP in 4e

[hong]

Or a +2 circumstance bonus.

Stunt dice, ppl, stunt dice!

 

[Jhaelen]

If giving out a couple of XP for good roleplaying is enough to make sure that every player makes a minimal effort to act in character, I think it's worth it, and it makes the game more fun for everyone.

The thing is, if you're only giving out a couple XP it will not be sufficient encouragement. If you're giving out significant amounts then it'll always be the same players that get huge amounts and the same players who will get a small amount.
Because, let's face it, you'll always have players that are better at RPing than others. Over time this creates a great imbalance which will eventually lead to bad feelings.

I found the extract from the D&D Rules Cyclopedia interesting because it's almost identical to the list of things that get you 'XP' in Earthdawn. I've played in an Earthdawn campaign for several years and it developed exactly the way I described above and was part of the reason the game eventually died.

I am much more fond of granting XP for helping to advance the story. Which is pretty much exactly what Quest XP are for. So, thumbs up for the 4E rules!

 

[Tervin]

The first White Wolf game i played, the DM gave out the WW equivalent of XP at the end of each session by asking you "What did you learn". I was pretty unfamiliar with the system and had created a rather weak and ineffective character, and had a hard time contributing alot to the general flow of things, but i tried, i was just unfamiliar with what was effective. So when it came to me, i really never had much to say because A) i really didn't know what the DM was looking for. B) My character hadn't learned all that much on his own, because he was gimped by my inexperience. As a result i got about 1-2 points per session, while others with their tweaked out characters were getting 4-5 points. as a result, their characters could grow, mine did not. It was very discouraging. I eventually got better at it, but i definitely felt put down by being punished for being new.

I ran a Vampire chronicle for a number of years and our group made our own version of that. After each session points were given out for learning, participating, roleplaying the character and (sometimes) for being in danger. Our ritual was that everybody helped explain what the other players' characters had learnt, gave examples of RP scenes etc. This way every session ended with the players giving each other compliments -which somehow always made it easy to book the next session. (And yes, everybody always got the same amount of XP after a session.)

 

[DeusExMachina]

I'd argue that no-one has any business codifying a ruleset to reward roleplaying. There are many ways of defining roleplaying, good or bad. It's so entirely subjective that I believe it'd be impossible to create rules for.

Also, most groups will contain a mix of players - good roleplayers, good tacticians, people who just enhance the game through the way they interact with other players, and so on. Many will bring more than one of these qualities to the game. Some are in-game qualities and some are meta, but all can enhance the game. If you give out XP rewards for good roleplaying, do you also give out awards to the person who thought up the winning tactic, or to the person who made sure the quiet, shy player got more involved? If you do, then fine. In fact, fine if you don't. But while I think there's room in the game for bonus XP awards, I would hate to see them codified. And I'd particularly hate it if the rules attempted to define good roleplaying and instructed me on how to reward it.

Others have made excellent points as to why roleplaying means different things to different people. I don't think the lack of rules to reward RP makes this less of a roleplaying game. It just accepts that it means something different to everyone, and allows us to handle this subject as we wish, rather than forcing a particular vision on us.

This.

I know that in my group there are some who want lots of rp'ing, but others just like the get together and kill monsters and take their stuff aspect. Should they be penalized because they like the last part better or are simply beter at it than at rp'ing?

 

[Mercutio01]

I don't want set rules on RP XP. I thought the rules that existed in the Rules Cyclopedia were too codified and objected to the idea that it was part of the core experience. I think removing a hard codification of this is a very very good thing.

That said, I have and will continue to award RP XP to a player who I feel deserves special recognition. I have never felt odd in giving XP when DMing or when playing and receiving XP. It wasn't something I put in my house rules. It wasn't something that I awarded with any sense of regularity or "and for this session the RP XP goes to..." It was for people who stood out above the others.

So, in summary--codification of arbitrary rulings = bad. Having houserules at your table are fine. Dismissing an entire game system just because that codification isn't present? = short-sighted and ultimately lame.

 

[Lord Xtheth]

Why not give similar bonus XP for rule knowledge? Playing well with others? Bringing the most snacks?
Thoughts?

What? You mean you DON'T award XPs for bringing snacks?

Am I the only Fat DM out there or what?

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

The thing is, if you're only giving out a couple XP it will not be sufficient encouragement. If you're giving out significant amounts then it'll always be the same players that get huge amounts and the same players who will get a small amount.
Because, let's face it, you'll always have players that are better at RPing than others. Over time this creates a great imbalance which will eventually lead to bad feelings.

Honestly, what you're describing is not what I have observed. In my experience, small XP bonuses are enough to remind players that they're supposed to make a small effort and do more than just roll the dice. I'm not asking for much. If they're not ready to do that minimal effort, they probably shouldn't play roleplaying games in the first place, in my opinion.

I am much more fond of granting XP for helping to advance the story. Which is pretty much exactly what Quest XP are for. So, thumbs up for the 4E rules!

The problem with that is that it encourages railroading. You're basically patting the players on the back for doing what you expected them to do. Me, I'd rather be surprised by the players, and give XP when they are being entertaining or when they start thinking out of the box.

 

[DandD]

You can easily change the quest-goal on the fly, adapting the very objective that the players have chosen for themselves as the new quest.

As for myself, I'm making it even easier. No XP for monster killing, no XP for acting, no XP for overcoming skill challenges, and no Quest XP. After they managed to achieve their goal (whatever it might have been, doesn't matter if I as the GM handed it to them or the players simply chose to do another thing), they get to level up their character all together. This way, I'm avoiding the disruptive moment of when the players need to level up their characters inmidst a gaming session because they've got enough XP for a level up while killing a monster and taking its stuff, while talking in funny accents and making verbose speeches about broccoli.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

The thing is, if you're only giving out a couple XP it will not be sufficient encouragement. If you're giving out significant amounts then it'll always be the same players that get huge amounts and the same players who will get a small amount.
Because, let's face it, you'll always have players that are better at RPing than others. Over time this creates a great imbalance which will eventually lead to bad feelings.

Exactly my problem with it.
That and is difficult to objectively determine who roleplayed well.


On the otherhand when I have given out XP for good RP I also I gave XP for other things listed in the article. Bringing snacks, being a good player (paying attention knowing all rules pertinent to your character), being heroic and tactical ability.
I reduced combat XP by 25 percent and this extra XP more or less made up for it.


These days I just hand out a fixed amount every session, occaisonally giving a bonus.

 

[TheWyrd]

With 4E, I'm not sure we've seen anything that XP goes towards other than levels and building 'level appropriate encounters'. If you've got a knack for eyeballing it I don't see a reason why just throwing out a level when it seems right would be a problem. Heck, if you have it all sorted out right, you could probably aim for a level per adventure. (Although that might be a little slow).