No-save spells in a magic item

[HellHound]

It is being argued by a party that spells that have no save DO have a save according to page 176 of the DMG as well as the FAQ and errata.

"Q: What's the DC for saving against a spell cast from a wand or scroll? How do you determine the Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier for the character who made the item, or is it the character who uses the item that determines the save DC?

A: The ability score of the item maker or item user is irrelevant. The saving throw DC for any spell effect generated from an item is 10 +1.5 times the spell level, rounded down. (See Saving Throws Against Magic Item Powers on page 176 of the DUNGEON MASTER's Guide.)"

and

"Q: For magic items that store spells (scrolls, potions, runes, wands), I assume the spell's saving throw DC is determined by the caster's relevant ability score (Wisdom, Intelligence, or Charisma) and feats such as Spell Focus, provided that the person who made the item is also the person using the item. What happens if the item creator is different from item user? Also, is it possible for characters other than the item creator to provide a spell for an item. How is the saving throw DC for the spell determined then?

A: The saving throw DC for any spell effect generated from a magic item is equal to 10 + 1.5 times the spell level, rounded down. (See Saving Throws Against Magic Item Powers on page 176 of the DUNGEON MASTER's Guide.) This applies no matter who makes them item and no matter who uses the item."


I'm insisting that this only applies to spells that have a save, and spells like "Enervation" do not have a save and therefore do not suddenly gain one because they are stored in a spell-trigger device.

Backup?

 

[0-hr]

Yes, spells that normally get no save suddenly get one when you put them into a wand. And "personal" spells can also be cast on other people. Not to mention all of your "touch" spells magically aquire a range increment of 100ft +10/level when put into a wand. They also get the [sonic] descriptor for free.

 

[HellHound]

Ha.
Ha.

Thanks so much for being helpful.

 

[Jeremy]

No. Those rules are for how to determine what the DC is for a spell trigger item that allows a save.

Enervation does not allow a save from a caster or from a wand.

 

[Stalker0]

Yes, spells that normally get no save suddenly get one when you put them into a wand. And "personal" spells can also be cast on other people. Not to mention all of your "touch" spells magically aquire a range increment of 100ft +10/level when put into a wand. They also get the [sonic] descriptor for free.

Is this really true? I thought for touch spells, you had to touch the person with the wand (like CLW). Can someone show me the book reference that shows touch spells get a range?

 

[drowdude]

Is this really true?

Every word.

 

[RogueJK]

Is this really true? I thought for touch spells, you had to touch the person with the wand (like CLW). Can someone show me the book reference that shows touch spells get a range?

No, it's not true. He was merely being sarcastic.


But I've got some lovely oceanfront property in Colorado that I'd like to sell you...

 

[0-hr]

Ok, ok, I was just kidding. Geez, I guess it is true that sarcasm is impossible over the Internet. Anyway, my goal was to show that adding a saving throw for no reason was just as absurd as adding a range, or damage type, to a spell.

When you put a spell in a wand, the spell does NOT gain a saving throw, or range, or anything else, that it didn't already have!