No "wider" Sweet Spot in 4E after all?

[Jhaelen]

Well, I wouldn't know about 4E's sweet 'spot' but at least regarding epic play, I don't think there's sufficient material available. While it's getting better with every new release I wouldn't feel comfortable yet running an epic campaign. The high level monsters (i.e level 30+) are still quite sparse.

What's been leaked about the DMG2 also indicates the next set of core books will concentrate on the paragon tier. So, I guess we'll have to wait for the third set of core books until we can tell, if there is still a sweet spot.

 

[Oldtimer]

We are 6 months in...

7½ actually.

 

[El Mahdi]

...I included 2009 releases on the chart (which are mostly higher level adventures) along with all other WoTC officialy published adventures. The chart in the right hand corner of the picture is starting level distribution.

Cleaned up the chart a bit and updated to include everything except Open Grave (don't have it and not buying it) and RPGA/Living Forgotten Realms adventures (don't have access to them and don't plan on joining RPGA). If anyone has the names and levels of those adventures, just e-mail them to me (through my account) and I'll update the chart. If there are any others I've missed, email those also.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The Sweet Spot was about maths.

Because the maths have been fixed, and the curve has been flattened, there is no sweet spot, numerically.

Mid-range probably just gives you the most diversity in choice -- once you hit either low or high, you are more limited with the upper and lower limits of the critters you can use. Which is a natural consequence of any system with both a beginning and an end: the middle is going to have more space.

 

[Henry]

Something else to remember: Above level 15, you start getting into characters flying all over creation, teleporting and scrying regularly, etc. -- all those things that change the nature of a D&D campaign. This I suspect is the real reason why there's less stuff for above that level than levels 8 to 12 or lower.

 

[Emryys]

Cleaned up the chart a bit and updated to include everything except Open Grave (don't have it and not buying it) and RPGA/Living Forgotten Realms adventures (don't have access to them and don't plan on joining RPGA). If anyone has the names and levels of those adventures, just e-mail them to me (through my account) and I'll update the chart. If there are any others I've missed, email those also.

The Living Realms of Oxford has info on all the scenarios with levels...

 

[El Mahdi]

The Living Realms of Oxford has info on all the scenarios with levels...

Awesome. Thanks for the link. But, as far as the chart goes, or making another chart for the LFR adventures, I think I'm getting off this ride here.

I put the chart together just to get a visual of level distribution, to see if there is a concentration of published adventures in certain level ranges. The chart shows there isn't. It just shows a preponderance of low level adventures, with the number of adventures per level tapering off in a fairly even manner the higher in levels you go. That seems completely reasonable considering this is a new game and most groups will still be playing at those lower levels. I would expect that distribution to actually remain the same for quite a while, if not indefinitely. But the current distribution definitively refutes any appearence of a sweet spot based on published adventures. Looking at the chart, anyone can see it just ain't there.

Now, a sweet spot in play is another story (as some have already talked about in this thread). I don't run or play 4E so I can't attest to an existence of, or lack of, a sweet spot. However, from reading about most peoples experiences playing and DM'ing, it seems most people do not see or feel that there is one. It seems that on that score, the 4E designers achieved their goal.

The current chart is already running out of room for low level adventures, and Living Forgotten Realms already has more adventures than the rest of 4E combined (54 to 48 - not counting Open Grave). By the end of this coming year (if not sooner) there will be so many official WoTC 4E adventures that it would be impossible to fit them on a chart like the one I already made - at least with a font size big enough to be read without a magnifying glass. The only way would be to make the chart much bigger (than 8.5x11) which would make it too big to print.

What's needed is an Index (like the .pdf Dungeon Magazine Index that's floating about the internet). As I said before, I don't play 4E. I do have a DDI sub now, (for Dungeon mostly), but I will just convert any of these adventures I do use to my own houseruled 3.5 system. So, I don't need an index (since I convert them anyways, level really doesn't matter to me). I only pick and choose adventures on story and plot, everything else is adaptable and convertable. So, if there's going to be an Index of all of the 4E adventures, that's going to have to be someone elses baby.


Peace Out.