D&D 5E No winter/spring hardback for the first time in 5E history?

Parmandur

Book-Friend
What's funny is that for the first 3-4 years of 5E, we were told that campaign settings split the fan-base and directly lead to the death of an edition, as was the case with 2E.

Now, in 2020, Wizards is all like, "Let's split the fan-base! New campaign settings every year! Woo! It's time to sink this ship!"

I mean, what the hell happened?

They always said they were working on a new format for Settings that would not harm the player base: this seems to ha e resulted in the Ravnica/Eberron style of book, as opposed to older Setting book styles. This has so far sold like hotcakes.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Retreater

Legend
They always said they were working on a new format for Settings that would not harm the player base: this seems to ha e resulted in the Ravnica/Eberron style of book, as opposed to older Setting book styles. This has so far sold like hotcakes.
I guess that format (judging from Eberron) is to parcel out content for different audiences? If you're a player, you need that book for a few pages of new races/subclasses/spells. If you're a DM, you want that book for new monsters/magic items. If you're a fan of the setting, you want that book for lore and fluff.
The problem with this is that I'm (at best) going to want 1/3rd of a book, and priced at $50, it's just not worth it for me.
I'd rather just buy an adventure or monster book.
 

Undrave

Legend
The problem with this is that I'm (at best) going to want 1/3rd of a book, and priced at $50, it's just not worth it for me.

as a player this is my annoyance with the model. I already don't play everything in the PHB and I'm having trouble even justifying Xanathar's so...

But Theros sounds cool and if I had a bit more money I might get myself a DMG and try to run it...
 

Oofta

Legend
I guess that format (judging from Eberron) is to parcel out content for different audiences? If you're a player, you need that book for a few pages of new races/subclasses/spells. If you're a DM, you want that book for new monsters/magic items. If you're a fan of the setting, you want that book for lore and fluff.
The problem with this is that I'm (at best) going to want 1/3rd of a book, and priced at $50, it's just not worth it for me.
I'd rather just buy an adventure or monster book.
Which is one of the main reasons I use DndBeyond. I have just the content I need because I can buy just the content I want and share it all with my players.

Not a perfect model, but better than the alternative for me anyway.
 

jayoungr

Legend
Supporter
If you're a player, you need that book for a few pages of new races/subclasses/spells. If you're a DM, you want that book for new monsters/magic items. If you're a fan of the setting, you want that book for lore and fluff.
The problem with this is that I'm (at best) going to want 1/3rd of a book, and priced at $50, it's just not worth it for me.
How do you figure just 1/3?

If you're playing in the setting, you (theoretically) want the fluff and the player options.

If you're DMing in the setting, you (theoretically) want the fluff and the monsters/magic items.

If you're just reading it for the setting information but never plan to run or play in that setting--well, first, I agree that the book isn't really aimed at you, as that seems like a small market. But second, surely there are still some spells or monsters you could borrow for use elsewhere?
 

Prakriti

Hi, I'm a Mindflayer, but don't let that worry you
They always said they were working on a new format for Settings that would not harm the player base: this seems to ha e resulted in the Ravnica/Eberron style of book, as opposed to older Setting book styles. This has so far sold like hotcakes.
The format should make no difference. Either way, the player-base is split, because people are playing different settings. The official stance of WotC from 2014-2018 was that this was a Bad Thing. They told us that it directly leads to the death of an edition. Now they're doing it anyway. Why? And why are people going along with it if they believed WotC's prior reasoning?
 

Oofta

Legend
How do you figure just 1/3?

If you're playing in the setting, you (theoretically) want the fluff and the player options.

If you're DMing in the setting, you (theoretically) want the fluff and the monsters/magic items.

If you're just reading it for the setting information but never plan to run or play in that setting--well, first, I agree that the book isn't really aimed at you, as that seems like a small market. But second, surely there are still some spells or monsters you could borrow for use elsewhere?

Speaking for myself, let me give you the example of Eberron. I run a home campaign so I steal stuff from other sources all the time, but I'm not going to run an Eberron campaign. I like the setting well enough and occasionally throw a little magi-tech (magi-punk?) into my own world. I'm just going to steal some of the monsters and take a look at the artificer class. I just used a warforged titan in my last game.

But I don't need info on the gods, factions or any of the "fluff" material to run that campaign. I don't need new gods, factions or houses. Shifters? Warforged? Nah. I don't need the subraces at all. I occasionally toy with an invasion plot which might introduce warforged but that's it. If I decide to do that, I can buy just those rules.

So add me to the list that needs 1/3 of a lot of the books. At risk of sounding like an advertisement, that's why I like DndBeyond.
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
What's funny is that for the first 3-4 years of 5E, we were told that campaign settings split the fan-base and directly lead to the death of an edition, as was the case with 2E.

Now, in 2020, Wizards is all like, "Let's split the fan-base! New campaign settings every year! Woo! It's time to sink this ship!"

I mean, what the hell happened?

First of all, the line about campaign settings splitting the fanbase killing 2e is not entirely accurate (not your fault - it's the way everyone talks about it - but there's more to it than that). The line has been around since Wizards purchased TSR in the late 90s (and is why they restricted the number of settings for 3e for a long time), wasn't actually just about campaign settings themselves but was more about "product lines" competing with each other, was based on a very different RPG publishing business model than what Wizards has adopted for 5e, and was really about killing the entire publisher (TSR) rather than "just" an edition.

When you dig down into the "multiple campaign settings fractured the player base and killed TSR" what it comes down to is that the publishing model they were using at the time depended on a monthly stream of income coming from new D&D books dropping every single month (for those too young to remember - yes, the 90s were crazy). But they were dropping so many titles each month that their titles were competing with each other - instead of having "D&D" supplements that everyone could buy it was like TSR was producing a half dozen different game lines where the players of each setting pretty much had to choose for budgetary reasons which settings they were going to support and which they were going to pass on. So TSR was spending money to produce a bunch of supplements each month but only getting a fraction of the playerbase to buy each of them, resulting in a spiral where they had to crank out more product to make the monthly budgets. It wasn't sustainable and eventually they went bankrupt (there were lots of other bad management choices that led to that - so it's not the sole cause).

When Wizards took them over, Ryan Dancey identified this as one of the things that was mismanged at TSR and they set up the new publishing model - still dependent on monthly sales, but fewer books each month at a higher price point and more that every single player would want to buy. The only setting books they published were the Realms, the new setting launched for 3e - Eberron, and the short-lived d20 Modern line which technically at least counts as a product line though I doubt it was really "competing" with the D&D books in any meaningful sense for player dollars.

That model carried over into 4e, though they started to dabble a bit more and released Dark Sun as a setting as well. Still the basic publishing model of a book a month continued but was no longer sustainable even in its altered form (in fact it's lack of sustainability is why we I think we got 3.5e and then 4e and then 4e Essentials as quickly as we did tbh). So they switched to a model of "a few books a year, mostly adventures, and run the brand with a skeleton crew so you don't have to make as much to pay for it".

That model means that they aren't creating separate product lines - they're creating a setting book that they release and that's it. There's no competition for dollars among the players because they have everyone perpetually starved for content to the point where most folks seem to be willing to pick up whatever book gets released with the D&D logo on it. Every release is "special" so instead of having Theros compete with 4 other products from TSR hitting the shelf that month it stands on its own, not even really competing with the Eberron setting released last year or the Ravnica setting released in 2018.

(Add to the fact that development costs for MtG settings have to be minimal - they mostly just have to develop game mechanics because the art and story pieces are already done. And MtG has a built-in player base that they want to get to crossover to become D&D players. So releasing a new setting from the MtG side of things every couple of years - with no added support beyond that - is probably worth the risk for them.)
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I guess that format (judging from Eberron) is to parcel out content for different audiences? If you're a player, you need that book for a few pages of new races/subclasses/spells. If you're a DM, you want that book for new monsters/magic items. If you're a fan of the setting, you want that book for lore and fluff.
The problem with this is that I'm (at best) going to want 1/3rd of a book, and priced at $50, it's just not worth it for me.
I'd rather just buy an adventure or monster book.

Basically, yes, and it is smart business: most of us will have use for multiple angles of content, and they have a la carte options on D&D Beyond.

Price per hour of entertainment is probably going to be a better measure of value in an RPG book than percentage of content that is "useful". These books cost less than dinner and a movie.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
The format should make no difference. Either way, the player-base is split, because people are playing different settings. The official stance of WotC from 2014-2018 was that this was a Bad Thing. They told us that it directly leads to the death of an edition. Now they're doing it anyway. Why? And why are people going along with it if they believed WotC's prior reasoning?

They said the 2E model was unsustainable,but they also said they were working to make a new model of Settings for 5E. They cracked the code with these Genre booster pack books.
 

Remove ads

Top