Noble Core Class

[Bront]

Just like he could take a level in Barbarian and get rage, or 2 levels in monk and get evasion, 4 bonus feats, and 2 good saves.

Just because you can cherry pick doesn't mean you should.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Just like he could take a level in Barbarian and get rage, or 2 levels in monk and get evasion, 4 bonus feats, and 2 good saves.

Just because you can cherry pick doesn't mean you should.

None of those other combos lets him get the equivalence or superior of the Fighter bonus feat of his choice that he would have gotten from Fighter levels, but Noble does.

 

[Bront]

Arguably, the Monk could, but yes, that I do understand. However, specialization isn't selectable unless you qualify for it normaly, and Noble doesn't help you qualify for it.

Also, you do give up the D10s, and BAB. Granted, it's potentialy only 1-2 points per level, and 1 BAB every 4, but droping down the 1 BAB can realy hurt a fighter type.

Also, baring the L1 bonus, I think that this belays the fighter's weakness after L4 more than the strength of the Noble.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Perhaps, but the unfortunate fact is that it magnifies the weakness of the Fighter by providing options that help undermine it--it also makes the 'Social Rogue' / Bard face very-nearly obsolete, but that's a different story.

Especially considering that you've created numerous interesting abilities for the Noble to take instead of feats, most of which are more powerful than a feat, it would be a simple matter to restrict to General and Fighter feats and then further restrict swapping out an ability for a feat to, say, every other ability, which would make it much less of a threat to the Fighter without really lessening the Noble's ability except to prevent crazy combos with feats from new supplements (another example I thought of, besides Warforged and Shifter, could be a Noble who took lots of those extremely-powerful feats (if you're in the right terrain) from the Frostburn-series supplements, and I'm sure there are others too).

 

[Bront]

Limiting the bonus feat selection to every other selection is probably a good one, though one option is to set a level where it starts, making it, say, only available after 10th level, or perhaps even as low as 6th level, will prevent people who aren't taking at least 50% of their levels in Noble from abusing it.

3 options.

#1) A bonus feat can only be selected if one was not selected for the previous special Ability Selection

2) A Bonus Feat can only be selectet at levels 2,6,10,14,and 18 (or 4,8,12,16, and 20)

3) A Bonus Feat can not be selected till (4th, 6th, 8th or 10th) level)

As for the Social rogue/bard combo, it's still usefull, if not different. You end up with some different abilities that way, and a lot more skill points, at a cost of a bigger HD. But the Noble I feel fits a PC arisocrat better than a bard or rogue would in general. Why should my Arisocrat have sneak attack and trap finding? Or Magical Music?

 

[Nyaricus]

Just a question (i understand that this class is based partially off of Rogue) but why did you choose Will and Reflex for his two good saves?

 

[Nyaricus]

I like you new suggestion with the feat choices. IMO, you should just take an hour or two and craft a specific list of bonus feats that theymust choose from. If you still want to keep them (overly, IMO) versitile, just say in the Special Ability section, at the bootom)

After 10th level, a Noble may now take any feat that he meets the pre-requsites for

 

[Bront]

Just a question (i understand that this class is based partially off of Rogue) but why did you choose Will and Reflex for his two good saves?

Actualy, it's based off the Arisocrat, as well as a few other noble classes I scouted out.

Will is because Nobles are trained for some kind of mental fortitude, just because of the need of the position.

Ref... I think it was based off of other classes, but honestly I'm having trouble remembering my reasoning. I guess that might be another way to balance the class a bit, leave the feats, but drop the REF save.

One thought, how would a special ability to replace one of your noble poor saves with a good save be? Or am I simply better letting them take the save bonus feat?

 

[Bront]

I like you new suggestion with the feat choices. IMO, you should just take an hour or two and craft a specific list of bonus feats that theymust choose from. If you still want to keep them (overly, IMO) versitile, just say in the Special Ability section, at the bootom)

I think I'm going to add text stating basicly that the extra feat is a result of special training and/or resources available to the Noble, and therefore must be appropriate for their station (IE, approved by the GM).

That means I don't have to write a list (Because there are a LOT of feats, particularly in non-core sourses), and different nobles have access to different training. Some nobles might be more militant focused and get all fighter feats and a few others, while a more mystical noble family might have arcane feats available, but little in the way of combat feats, and I don't see much of a problem with most general feats.

The limit at 10th for feats may not happen if I drop the good REF save. I think I remember seeing nobles as generaly more elusively combat trained, which is where that came from. Obviously I'm of a slightly different view of it now.

 

[Nyaricus]

honestly, i'd just go through the PHB, and tick off the feats I'd aloow - if the player want's nother feat from a different book (the complete series being a good example) Just go though that book and add the appropriate feats - if the one he wants is on that list, then he could obviously use it.

If you have a lot of people and/or alot of books then i could see how that could become daunting . . . but i doubt everyone in your group wants to be a Noble (although there might be more than one . . .)

Anyways, that's just what i'd do, as for Ref save, i say drop it. It makes no sense (elusive in combat isnt the same as a reflex save) and frankly you could stand to give them another ability that "builds up" (like your Coordinate or a rogues Sneak Attack), perhaps starting at level 10 or even 15 (or maybe having both, but not too powerful in that case)

Just something to give these guys a little more flavour. Despite the fact that most things here are pretty "concrete" in your opinion, I am still really tempted to say "this is a really good start to a well-crafted Noble class"