Noblity? help please?

[Zakath]

Can someone write out a list for me listing the titles of noblity starting from the king down to the lowest noble?
thanks!

 

[Heretic Apostate]

Just on what I remember (sure to miss a bunch; also, remember that this is culture-specific):

King
(Prince)
Duke
Count
Baron
Knight
(Squire)

There are other things that might fall in there. Baronet. Viscount. Different level of knights. Also, a person can hold many different titles. They might be Prince of Pastels, Duke of Diggers, Baron of Birches, and so on. (Take a look at the titles of the royals of Britain. Their titles can go on forever....)

 

[Meds]

I believe that English landed nobility goes as follows:

Duke/Duchess
Marquis/Marquesa
Earl/Countess
Viscount/Viscountess
Baron/Baroness

 

[Aaron L]

LONG

Here is the list of precedence for England:

The King

The Prince of Wales

King's Sons

King's Brothers

King's Uncles

King's Grandsons

King's Brother's or Sister's Sons

Prince of Saxe Coburg Saalfeld

Archbishop of Canterbury, Lord Primate of all England

Lord High Chancellor, or Lord Keeper

Archbishop of York, Primate of England

Lord High Treasurer

Lord President of the Privy Council

Lord Privy Seal

Lord High Constable

Earl Marshal

Lord High Admiral

Lord Steward of his Majesty's Household

Lord Chamberlain of his Majesty's Household

Dukes, according to their Patents

Marquesses

Dukes' eldest Sons

Daughters of Dukes

Earls, according to their Patents

Marquesses' eldest Sons

Daughters of Marquesses

Dukes' younger Sons

Viscounts, according to their Patents

Earls' Eldest Sons

Marquesses' younger Sons

Bishops of London, Durham, Winchester, and all other Bishops, according to their Seniority of Consecration

Barons, according to their Patents

Speaker of the House of Commons

Viscounts' Eldest Sons

Earls' younger Sons

Barons' Eldest Sons

Knights of the Garter

Privy Counsellors

Chancellor of the Exchequer

Chancellor of the Dutchy of Lancaster

Lord Chief Justice of the King's Bench

Master of the Rolls

Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas

Lord Chief Baron of the Exchequer

Judges and Barons of the Degree of the Coife of the said Court according to Seniority

Bannerets made by the King himself in person under the royal standard displayed in an army royal in open war, for the term of their lives, and no longer

Viscounts' younger Sons

Barons' younger Sons

Baronets

Bannerets not made by the King himself

Knights Grand Crosses of the Bath

Knights Commanders of the Bath

Knights Bachelors

Eldest Sons of the younger Sons of Peers

Baronets' Eldest Sons

Knights of the Garters' Eldest Sons

Knights Grand Crosses of the Bath's Eldest Sons

Knights' Eldest Sons

Baronets' younger Sons

Companions of the Order of the Bath

Esquires of the King's Body

Gentlemen of the Privy Chamber

Esquires of the Knights of the Bath

Esquires by Creation

Esquires by Office

May be more than you need, but it has everything!

 

[Agback]

Marquis/Marquesa

In English, 'marchioness' is used in place of 'marquesa', and 'marquess' is more strictly correct than 'marquis'.

Regards,


Agback

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Trivia:

English have male "Earls" but their wives are "Countesses". The rest of western Europe had "Counts" and "Countesses". What happened was that the English wives of Earls decided that "Countess" sounded cooler so they used that instead of whatever it was they were using previously.

 

[Agback]

Re: LONG

Here is the list of precedence for England:

The King

<snip>

Prince of Saxe Coburg Saalfeld

Was there a date on that thing?

May be more than you need, but it has everything!

Including many that are not titles of nobility. In England, the only titles of nobility are duke (duchess), marquess (marchioness), earl (countess), viscount (viscountess), and baron (baroness). All the others, including judges, eldest sons of kings and dukes, etc. etc. are not in point of law nobles, even thought they may be addressed as 'my lord'.

Also, don't forget that the system developed over time. Before 1327-odd the only noble titles in England were 'earl' and 'lord'. Dukedoms in England were a development of the late mediaeval period. Marquessates and viscounties were introduced in Renaissance times (ie. under the Tudors), and baronetcies not until the Enlightenment (post-Restoration Stuarts).

In other languages the sequence is different and often more elaborate [eg. German has herzog, prinz, and furst all corresponding roughly to an English duke or marquess, and several different sorts of graf (markgraf, landgraf, burggraf, graf] corresponding in theory to marquesses and earls). And in the legal tradition of the Continent a lot of people count as nobles who would not count as nobles in England, including, for example, all the children of an married couple of nobles, even if they are landless and without a title.

Don't forget that archbishops, bishops, mitred abbots, abbots, archdeacons, archpriests, canons, priors, preceptors, many other ecclesiastics, and their female equivalents were often landed and to all intents and purposes noble. For example, in England until the Reformation, the Prior of the Order of St John took precedence before all untitled barons (ie. 'barons').

Then there are idiosyncratic titles. One of the powerful vassals of the Dukes of Aquitaine was the Captal de Bouche, but there aren't captals anywhere else than Bouche.

A final caution: don't get too wrapped up in the feudal pyramid and the hierachy of titles they told you about in school. The marquis of Gothia was a vassal of the Count of Toulouse. Many earls leased some of their fiefs from knights, and many knights and even yeomen were direct vassals of the King. No nobleman in England after the reign of Henry II (middle of the 12th century) held his title or main estates as a fief of anyone but the king.

In French, the sequence is roughly roi, prince, duc, marquis, comte, vicomte, baron, chevalier. But there are anomalies.

In German, the hierarchy is something like kaiser, könig, grossherzog, herzog, prinz, furst, markgraf, landgraf, graf, burggraf, freiherr, ritter.

I'm not sure of the Spanish except that 'rey' is equivalent to 'king', 'duque' to 'duke', 'condé' to 'earl', and 'caballero' to 'knight'.

And I can't provide much help at all with Hungarian, Polish, or Russian, nor with Swedish/Norwegian and Danish.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Tratyn Runewind]

Hello!

Posted by Agback:
And I can't provide much help at all with Hungarian, Polish, or Russian, nor with Swedish/Norwegian and Danish.

Dracula came from the area of Hungary, and his title was Voivode of Wallachia. Presumably that would correspond at least roughly with the Western Count. The Russians used their version of the title (Voevody) to refer to provincial governors.

Russia's old, aristocratic nobility were referred to as the Boyars. Kniaz or Knyaz were rulers regarded as loosely equivalent to Western Princes or Dukes. Vyeliky Knyaz were Great Princes or Grand Dukes, including sovereigns such as the rulers of Kiev. The Dvoriane (singular: Dvorianin) were "court lords", a class of lesser nobles than the Boyars; they often had their titles through service rather than bloodline, and performed as officers and functionaries in the military and bureaucracy. Though sometimes counted as gentry, the Dvoriane had most priveliges of nobility, and were often granted estates or other landholdings appropriate to nobility. An even lower noble class, the deti boyarski, (literally "children of boyars") served in the lowest of positions, and are often regarded as little more than hangers-on and "flunkies".

The Polish noble class of medieval times was known as the Szlachta. They were very different from most other medieval nobility, electing their king and functioning in many ways as modern legislators do. In some areas they were also much more numerous than typical nobility, comprising up to 30% of the population.

Here's a page with a nice assortment of titles to play with; there are origins and explanations, and a bit of history as well. Some of the non-European stuff there looks like it could use some work, though. Anyway, have fun with them!

 

[Azure Trance]

German Nobility From the EU Forum

Copy and Pasted - Written by EWright

Here are the German noble/royal/imperial titles by rank/precedence:

Emperor (Kaiser)
King (Konig)
Co-king (Mitkonig)

Archduke (Erzherzog)
Grand Duke (Grossherzog)
Duke (Herzog)

Count Palatine (Pfalzgraf)
Margrave (Markgraf)
Landgrave (Landgraf)

Count (Graf)
Lord (Herr)
Knight (Ritter)

Emperor is Imperial, Kings are Royal, others are noble. The most important feature of German nobility is that of the Princes. The Co-king is the royal "Prince" (Prinz) as we English-speakers know it, the nominated & elected successor to the current King.

However, in Germany there was also the concept of the "noble" Prince, or Furst ("First" among equals, Prima inter pares, or "First" Head of a Princely House). ALL NOBLES WHO HOLD THEIR FIEFS DIRECTLY FROM THE KING are Imperial Princes (Reichsfursten), which generally covers all Archdukes, Grand Dukes, Dukes, Count Palatines, Margraves, & Landgraves, who are the High Nobility (Hochadel). Counts, Lords, and Knights are Low Nobility (Niederadel).

In addition, those Imperial Princes who have the right to vote in royal elections are also Electoral Princes (Kurfursten), or "Electors", the highest of the Princely Nobility. This leaves our simplified list at:

Emperor
King & Co-king
Electoral Princes (Electors)
Imperial Princes (Dukes & Higher Counts)
Lower Nobility (Counts, Lords, Knights)

Emperor (Kaiser): Highest secular ruler, can have Kings as vassals. Theoretically a universal monarch, ie, superior to all others. The Emperor had to first be elected & crowned King; then he could be crowned Emperor by the Pope. Maximilian I began the tradition that once crowned, he was both King & Emperor without deference to the Pope.

King (Konig): Sovereign ruler of a "nation". He had to be elected on East Frankish soil, ie, within the Duchy of Franconia (in EU2 Palatinate, Mainz, Hesse, Wurzburg) and traditonally at Frankfurt, the ancient capital of Franconia. He then had the right to be crowned King at the German capital of Aachen, usually by the Archbishop of Cologne. He could thereafter nominate a successor and have him elected & crowned Co-King (Mitkonig), a sort of German "Crown Prince" (Kronprinz), to ensure a smooth succession within the dynasty. There could also be an Anti-king (Gegenkonig) elected and/or crowned in opposition to the current King.

Duke (Herzog): Originally leader of 1 of the 4 German tribes (Franconians, Swabians, Saxons, Bavarians) and traditionally the highest of the nobility who could only be feudally subject to the King. Dukes are therefore by default Imperial Princes. They usually held their land in return for military service with the Imperial Army. The rank of Archduke was created to denote a Duke who had grown more powerful or ruled over multiple Duchies, such as the Archdukes of Austria. Grand Duke was largely honorific, ie, Grand Dukes outranked but were not necessarily more powerful than a Duke.

Count Palatine (Pfalzgraf): "Count of the Palace", a royal officer who represents the King in the region, holding the royal palaces & administering surrounding lands, presiding over the Court in his absence, and leading the local contingent in the field. There were originally 4, 1 for each of the German tribes, but by EU2 era there was only 1, the Count Palatine of the Rhine, who had always been the most powerful of their number.

Margrave (Markgraf): "Count of the March", a military "governor" who guarded a frontier area of the kingdom. He was to colonize it with Germans, convert the heathen or foreign population by force, develop the land and resources, and found towns. Since the borders were frequently contested, the Margrave only had to serve the Imperial Army in adjacent provinces. Brandenburg originated as the Saxon Nordmark against the heathen Slavs between the Elbe and Oder as well as the Poles (936). Austria was originally the Bavarian Ostmark against the southern Slavs and the Hungarians (976).

Landgrave (Landgraf): "Count of the Land", a Count who held multiple counties or more specifically all the counties in their region. Created for the Landgravate of Hesse-Thuringia (1130), which later split into the two most important German Landgravates, Hesse and Thuringia. The others were of little consequence and were generally not considered Imperial Princes.

Since Counts, Lords, and Knights were generally the same as their other European counterparts, I wont comment on them.

 

[Tonguez]

Trivia:

English have male "Earls" but their wives are "Countesses". The rest of western Europe had "Counts" and "Countesses". What happened was that the English wives of Earls decided that "Countess" sounded cooler so they used that instead of whatever it was they were using previously.

Actuall Earl is derived from the norse Jarl and is the equivalent of the Latin Count both of which mean (essentially) "Lord of the County"
Marquess means Lord of the Marches (ie Border Counties) and are higher ranking because they needed the power to declare 'martial law' when attacked by barbarians

There are only Two Royal Dukedoms in England
Duke of York and the Duke of Lancaster. Lancaster is always the Ruling Monarch (so Queen Elizabeth is the Duke of Lancaster (not Duchess)), and York is the Second Son (the First Son being the Prince of Wales - orignally designated so as to remind the Welsh of their defeat)