[Non-Americans] Are the stereotypes true?

[Sammael]

Having lived (and GMed/played) in both the U.S. and my home country of Serbia (which is in Europe, contrary to what the media may make you think ), I think I am fairly competent to say that this stereotype is simply not true. Games depend entirely on the players and the GM; I've met great storytellers and roleplayers on both sides of the Atlantic - and the same can be said for the powergamers, rules lawyers, and hack'n'slashers.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Well, I spent ten weeks last year over in the UK. I played in about four different groups during that time...DMing each time. The players were not any different than I would have expected beyond personality types. Some people just like rules more, some just like story and RP more. I found there was about an even balance while over there, just like I find here.

 

[tassander]

It has already been mentioned that most things depend on the player's/DM's personality. However, as with most stereotypes, there might be a grain of truth in that statement.
European gamers are definitely not more creative or better able to play narrative games.
Let's compare the most succesful American RPG (D&D) to the most succesful German RPG (The Dark Eye). Both are fantasy heartbreakers, both stand firmly on the rules-heavy side. If you look at the published adventures for both systems you'll soon notice a discrepancy: most D&D adventures, even those that are considered to be top-notch, such as the Banewarrens or Grey Citadel, are dungeon crawls, whereas these days a dungeon crawl seems to be a concept that's all but unheard of in TDE modules.

Sure, there are other games around as well, but statements like that can only be about a trend, anyways. TDE has for the last fifteen years been centered mostly on the role-playing experience, sometimes ridiculously so. Also, the flip side of non-dungeon adventures is that you have to deal with an immense amount of railroading in poorly done modules. And let's face it: good adventures are always the exception. D&D on the other hand does not do a lot to encourage players to leave their dungeons behind. If you look at the official material, fluff is still only around in small amounts, and neither PHB nor DMG give you the tools to turn your dungeon crawl into a role-playing experience.
Which is NOT to say that it can't be done. If you read the excellent story hours on these boards you can see what creative minds can come up with. and D&D does not hinder role-playing experiences, certainly not! I'm only saying that the adventures center around dungeon crawls and thus set a precedent for hack-and-slash games.

Thus it COULD be followed that there MIGHT be a trend among the general RP audience in the states to favor dungeon crawls, as most role-players are not aware of Unisystem, Amber or the en-world message boards, but they know the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. The reverse could then be said about German gamers.

Im not saying that it is really is that way, but it wouldn't particulary surprise me, either.
One last foot-note: a good, well DMed dungeon crawl is much more fun than a poorly run narrative game.

 

[jmucchiello]

Oddly, the opposite observation is true of board games. European board games tend to be more abstract, emphasizing game play over theme whereas American board games tend to emphasize theme over game play.

But, I don't think this is a valid observation at all. I know many individuals who prefer gamist games or narrativist games depending on their mood. I'm a gamist at heart and yet I occasionally run a completely narrativist (rules light doesn't begin to describe how light I go sometimes) game just for variety.

I doubt country of origin affects one's preference for rules heavy or rules light gaming. Personality and mood are far more important indicators.

 

[diaglo]

... England and Australia and elsewhere -- and I've seen lousy ones. I suppose that's typical.

poor Russ. dragging him thru the muck like this...

i can say that i've seen and played with many gamers too. from the US mainly, but also abroad.

they run the whole range.

 

[MetalBard]

What stereotype?

I've never even heard of the stereotype. I'm an American who's DMed in the U.S., Norway and Hungary. I'm pretty sure I've never "fallen flat" in Europe, since my Norwegian friends say that they still talk about the games I ran while living there so many years ago. Granted, I've lived more of my life in Europe than in the U.S. and my wife will sometimes claim that I'm not REALLY American. However, I was born in the U.S., hold citizenship and a passport of the United States, so I'd say I'm pretty qualified.

Although, I've had the same Norwegian and Hungarian friends visit me here in the U.S. and game with my groups here and I've never even seen a hint of the stereotype being described. This might also be because my group is almost always a role-playing/story driven group. The few rules-oriented or hack 'n' slash players that have joined our group have either "reformed" or left the group, not enjoying how we play.

Well, that's my perspective, to further muddy the waters with some trans-atlantic experience.

 

[Plane Sailing]

An observation that I and other British fans have made when discussing ENworld is that it sometimes seems as if Americans may be more keen on getting the precise legal way a rule works sorted out, while amongst those I know in the UK we're more likely to just make our own decision and go with it (we used to notice this in the Dragon too... we wondered why most of the Sage Advice questions got asked in the first place).

This almost certainly doesn't reflect the average players in all locations, to a certain extent it is likely to be "new car syndrome" (when you buy a new car it is often surprising how many of that particular model are on the road that you didn't notice before... once "sensitised" to a subject you start to notice it more).

Also, online discussion forums are a whole world away from playing the game - naturally rules-type discussions will come up more often. A self certification survey poll might be interesting though - if there were options like "North America and I like to get the rules really right", "North America and I don't mind playing fast and loose with the rules" and the same two for "Outside North America".

Interestingly some of the most weird and innovative computer games came from France (Alone in the Dark for one), and it has a rep for producing weird films too. Perhaps France is just a naturally creative place?

Interesting discussion, anyway.

Cheers

 

[Henrix]

Well, I don't know about stereotypes, but I got bored when the largest con in the country almost only had free form RPGs for a couple of years. Not that it's anything wrong with free form, but because I like variety. There are things that work well in free form, and things that work better with rules.

I have heard people say stuff like "the moment anyone puts a die on the table I walk away". (Me, I like dice! )

 

[Berandor]

Yes, the stereotypes are true... as much as stereotypes can be true, that is.

 

[Turanil]

I have heard that Europeans, specifically, are much more inclined to role-playing and creating flavor atmosphere in their games than American gamers.

In America, so the stereotype claims, American gamers are much more rules oriented, and I've heard tales of how the best American GMs have totally flopped when running games in Europe, because the European gamers were totally disenchanted with the approach.

Has anyone seen any evidence to support this? I'm curious if anyone has ever heard anything like this, or whether I'm alone here.

Listen to my experience!

I am French living in France. I have played D&D for 20 years with numerous DMs. One of them is a Californian, and a friend of 15 years. Then, I recently met with a group of American gamers in Paris. Until then I did play with only one of them DM, and will have to wait to see two others of them DMing in their turn. As such, you see that I have a pretty good experience of French DMs vs. American DMs.



A little suspense hehe...



Well, as far as DMing or just playing is concerned I see NO cultural difference. No emphasis on roll-playing over role-playing due to cultural origin... Sorry to disappoint you. HOWEVER! (And this is true!) Several American gamers are GLAD of being able to drink French wine rather than coca-cola during our gaming sessions!!! (And my Californian friend of 15 years told me once he came in France mainly because of the food here!).