Non-Core Class Survivor

[Drowbane]

Samurai

Ahh, its so hard to choose just one!!

I was about to vote off the Healer (MHB)... but then I saw the much hated Samurai (CW)

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I look forward to your diatribe on how the historical knight was not actually a paragon of honor, nor of courtly and chivalric behavior, and how gamers who have that idea and sourcebooks who perpetrate that fiction are are portraying them incorrectly.

One of these days. You could play an honorable knight if you want, but most knights didn't behave that way, so the knight's code shouldn't be part of a class. Also, the graveyards are filled with the corpses of honorable warriors. And, finally, an honorable knight should realize that adventurers are often not honorable, even though they're often good-aligned.

And then there's that stupid taunt ability! I would have voted for the knight, except the samurai was just begging to be smacked down.

Off topic - the real problem isn't with those things. The problem is, that samurai, by the time they were reading poetry and whatnot, weren't a warrior caste but a social class. Edo period Japan puts samurai on the top of the heap. However, being a samurai had little or nothing to do with your skill with weapons and everything to do with your social class. There were lots of women samurai for example, but, I'll guarantee you they were's wielding weapons of any kind.

Japan did go through different time periods where samurai were treated quite differently. During a rougly 250 year peace (punctuated by the occasional revolt) it's not surprising the samurai caste weren't really warriors after all; they were turned into leaders and bureaucrats and many wouldn't have fighter levels in DnD terms, they would have Aristrocrat levels instead. IIRC Kiso Yoshinaka's wife Toemon did kick butt in a fight, but most female samurai didn't fight. Of course, Kiso Yoshinaka and Toemon was from the "rough and uncultured" Minamoto clan more than 400 years before the Tokugawa got into power...

On a similar note, far more Daimyo were killed by their own peasants and his head presented to the victor when Daimyo's clashed

True but that doesn't mean there weren't daimyo killed by their own samurai. Takeda Katsuyori got an even worse fate; locked out of his own castle with an army chasing him.

And my Japanese is failing me at the moment, since Daimyo is actually the wrong term.

It's the one I hear, and I don't read Japanese. Daimyo is supposed to mean "big name" but all the sources I've read use it as "Great Lord".

 

[Psion]

Off topic - the real problem isn't with those things. The problem is, that samurai, by the time they were reading poetry and whatnot, weren't a warrior caste but a social class. Edo period Japan puts samurai on the top of the heap. However, being a samurai had little or nothing to do with your skill with weapons and everything to do with your social class. There were lots of women samurai for example, but, I'll guarantee you they were's wielding weapons of any kind.

When you start contrasting this with the time period by which Bards started casting spells, it's really sort of a moot point. D&D is littered with class concepts that are muddy collaborations of historical concepts. I think this makes not a whit of different.

Indeed, d20 Rokugan, and over-the-top fantasy version of real world conventions if there ever was one, had the wisdom to model various warrior clan members with the Samurai class, Fighter, Barbarian, or even Rogue class as appropriate. Classes are your tools. Getting locked in the "a core class for every concept" mentality is why we have such a huge heap of them to cull here.

 

[I'm A Banana]

One of these days. You could play an honorable knight if you want, but most knights didn't behave that way, so the knight's code shouldn't be part of a class. Also, the graveyards are filled with the corpses of honorable warriors. And, finally, an honorable knight should realize that adventurers are often not honorable, even though they're often good-aligned.

Yeah, and doesn't it suck how the game allows us to play druids, but doesn't take into account their historical roots as ritualistic priests with little to no true supernatural power, who couldn't shapeshift or call down weather storms? And how the clerics can be of any god instead of the One True God like all the crusaders were anyway? And how Wizards can cast spells despite no real person ever having that power....

I'm being obtuse, but come on, man, D&D is not the best place for historical accuracy of any kind.

 

[Glyfair]

Getting locked in the "a core class for every concept" mentality is why we have such a huge heap of them to cull here.

To be fair, a large chunk of these are only new classes because of completely different "magic systems." All the classes from the psionics books, Tome of Magic and Magic of Incarnum qualify for this.

That still leaves a lot of dubious classes, and certainly some of these classes could be combined (the healer & favored soul come to mind).

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Yeah, and doesn't it suck how the game allows us to play druids, but doesn't take into account their historical roots as ritualistic priests with little to no true supernatural power, who couldn't shapeshift or call down weather storms? And how the clerics can be of any god instead of the One True God like all the crusaders were anyway? And how Wizards can cast spells despite no real person ever having that power....

I'm being obtuse, but come on, man, D&D is not the best place for historical accuracy of any kind.

Arguments over the historical accuracy of the samurai would vanish if the samurai class were flexible. If it were flexible, you could make a historically accurate samurai character, or not, if you preferred.

Spellcasters obviously can't be historically accurate ^^

 

[Agent Oracle]

Okay, I think with over 140 votes on this poll, it's clear that it's time to remove the samurai, and start up "non-core survivor 2" where the spellthief will be leaving us.

 

[Captain Howdy]

I voted for the Knight, because I don't want aggro mechanics in my game. D&D is not an mmorpg, thank you.

BTW, Agent Oracle, I think you might want to rehost images instead of hotlinking... Unless that "I'm gay" pic was supposed to be there and I am just missing something...

 

[Vanuslux]

Okay, I think with over 140 votes on this poll, it's clear that it's time to remove the samurai, and start up "non-core survivor 2" where the spellthief will be leaving us.

Actually three classes are being eliminated this round, so the spellthief (the one I voted for) will be departing too. The wilder right now holds the third spot, but there's a few classes (healer, lurk, wu jen) only one vote behind it so it still has a chance this round.

It's going to be hard for me to decide what to vote next round.

 

[Mercule]

Samurai gets a bye from me because I ignore all oriental classes (blech, no Eastern in my fantasy). It sucks bad enough that I thought about it, though.

I went with Dragon Shaman, because I am so frakking sick of dragon-themed classes, PrCs, feats, and critters that I can't hardly stand it.

The next few rounds will see me voting for Divine Mind, Spirit Shaman, Favored Soul, and Healer out of genuine malice. Then, I'll have to ponder what to vote, or culling the oriental and incarnum classes.