Non-magical area attacks

[turnip]

Thanks for all of the replies. I'm embarrassed for having asked this question - the tone of some of the replies seems pretty exasperated with me. I'm sorry.

I don't think it's a stupid question; it really depends on the style of game you are playing.

Not everyone wants to play a "Batman-in-armor-style" game; some want an underdog rising to unintentional greatness game (a la The Hobbit) or a gritty realism game. Questions like this would be integral there.

That being said, I don't think that over-thinking the tossing is a good idea, either. You want to encourage "cool" moves like that as a DM - maybe make a single skill check or a modifier to hit, not two. And maybe increase damage die by one, to simulate explosions in closed quarters or to the unarmored backsides (to congratulate the "cool" move).

That also being said, some people like Heroic (capital H) games and characters...don't smush their games with realism they don't want or need.

 

[malraux]

Just remember:

You are a PC in a game of Dungeons and Dragons. You are, at the very least, Heroic with a capital "H". Something as trivial as throwing a glass vial unerringly through an arrow slit is all in a day's work for you.

my objection to that is then why is there an arrow slit? If it has no effect on the game, then that seems somehow less to me.

 

[OnlineDM]

my objection to that is then why is there an arrow slit? If it has no effect on the game, then that seems somehow less to me.

It absolutely matters for RANGED attacks. An arrow slit grants superior cover, which gives a -5 penalty to ranged (and melee) attacks. It just doesn't technically do anything about AREA attacks whose origin squares are on the same side of the wall as the target. Hence my initial confusion. Ranged attacks and area attacks work differently in this regard.

 

[DracoSuave]

my objection to that is then why is there an arrow slit? If it has no effect on the game, then that seems somehow less to me.

It doesn't have no effect on the game. It grants total cover. That's an effect.

But no one's really advocating the terrain element has no effect; just don't make it a complicated effect, nor make it an effect that singles out Weapon or Martial effects without some compensating element in the encounter.

Granted, there's not a large number of Area attacks in the martial power source, but I digress.

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Naw, your question isn't dumb nor exhasperating at all, OnlineDM. It's actually a good one cause it helps discuss a lot of the philosophy behind 4th edition. The game treats you like a hero heading towards immortality. It can be used to play a dark and gritty game, but let's be blunt. It's not Warhammer Fantasy RPG or Gemini or similiarly rough games like that. It's not as capable of playing that style as other systems are. It's designed for playing an epic.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

my objection to that is then why is there an arrow slit? If it has no effect on the game, then that seems somehow less to me.

Why are there castles with walls and towers and gates? One has to presume that if this kind of architecture is common then things like Alchemical Fire and spell casters that can fling around highly destructive AoEs and ritual magic like passwall or able to easily fly then none of it makes sense anyway.

So basically there are arrow slits because arrows are very common menace. Area effects OTOH are a pretty rare menace. We could try to hypothesize what a castle would look like in a higher magic environment, but the result probably isn't all that thematic for pseudo-medieval settings.

 

[Pbartender]

my objection to that is then why is there an arrow slit?

Because overall there really aren't that many Heroes (capital "H") or Monsters (Capital "M") running around the world compared with mundane people and creatures. It is simply more cost effective to defend against the common threat rather than the rarities.

And should a group of Monsters show up and start throwing alchemist's fire through your arrow slits, then it's time to call upon the Heroes to fend them off... And adventure ensues.

 

[Mad Hamish]

my objection to that is then why is there an arrow slit? If it has no effect on the game, then that seems somehow less to me.

It provides cover against ranged attacks and people behind arrowslits with bows or crossbows can shoot up people coming towards them with alchemical items and probably stop them from getting into a position to throw them through.

So it makes your archers much harder to take out than they would be without them.

 

[Pbartender]

It provides cover against ranged attacks and people behind arrowslits with bows or crossbows can shoot up people coming towards them with alchemical items and probably stop them from getting into a position to throw them through.

So it makes your archers much harder to take out than they would be without them.

Yeah, that's the other thing to remember... A standard longbow has twice the range as the longest ranged spells, and any alchemical item that does appreciable damage or has a decent to-hit is going to get real expensive real fast.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I vote for terrain feature.

Aiming with a burst behind an arrow slit is usually as difficult as throwing a grenade...