Non-random D&D Miniatures

[Nifft]

So, WotC, how about it:

Let's see a D&D Minis distribution with all the random humanoids in one pack (orc, kobold, troglodyte, whatever) and monsters in another pack.

All the Large critters would be in the non-humanoid packs, so you could save some shelf space.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Kae'Yoss]

So, WotC, how about it:

Let's see a D&D Minis distribution with all the random humanoids in one pack (orc, kobold, troglodyte, whatever) and monsters in another pack.

All the Large critters would be in the non-humanoid packs, so you could save some shelf space.

And the boosters would cost twice as much as they do now. Okay, maybe not twice as much, but there's no chance such packs would be sold for the same price the general boosters are sold now.

So you want DDMM and DDMC (monsters/characters). Some people won't buy the DDMC packs at all. Some will only buy a handful. Many will buy monster packs, but it will be a lot less monster packs than old DDM boosters. Even DDMM and DDMC taken together will not nearly be as much as DDM sold today.

So for wizards to make the same profit, they'll have to charge more. Are you willing to pay 20 quid for a DDM pack if it is guaranteed to contain no humanoids?

I think a point that a lot of people are missing is that some of us feel that you shouldnt have to rely on a secondary market to get WotC product.

We don't miss that point. We just think that this is your problem.

Seriously, if I have to choose between a distribution scheme where those people who are afraid of or even just dislike the secondary market don't get their minis and a scheme where no one gets anything, I'll choose the former and send people to counselling.

I repeat: If they switch to a non-random distribution, the options will become exceedingly limited, the prices will skyrocket, and it's not unlikely that the whole product line will tank.

How about if you couldn't buy X-Box 360 games except in randomized packs, and if you wanted a particular game, had to go through eBay? It's not a great comparison, but still...

Exactly: It's not a great comparison. In fact, it's apples and oranges. It ignores that the video game industry is larger than the RPG industry by several orders of magnitude (meaning that while video game stores can afford to put aside whole walls for video games, those stores that sell DDM can't put aside a whole wall for it), it ignores legal fine print like recommended age, it ignores the fact that it's comparing a bunch of products for less than 2 quid each with something that costs 50 quid, and probably a couple things more.

 

[delericho]

The problem is that WotC isn't concerned about what you specifically want, but at what will sell enough to be profitable enough. I doubt many will pay $100 for a Red Hand of Doom set (and I expect such a set would be over $100 if it had every needed monster for every encounter, even using double duty miniatures).

Of course. Conversely, I'm not interested in why Wizards produce (or don't produce) the specific products they make. If they produce the products I want at a price I'm willing to pay, I'll buy. If not, I won't. If we're in sync, great; if not, it's no big deal - there are plenty of other things for me to spend my money on.

And I agree - $100 for the RHoD is almost certainly too low. It might be doable for a module of the scope of Sunless Citadel, or perhaps not.

 

[delericho]

We don't miss that point. We just think that this is your problem.

Seriously, if I have to choose between a distribution scheme where those people who are afraid of or even just dislike the secondary market don't get their minis and a scheme where no one gets anything, I'll choose the former and send people to counselling.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the secondary market works significantly less well outside the US. So it's not a matter of being afraid, dislike, or needing counselling.

That said:

I repeat: If they switch to a non-random distribution, the options will become exceedingly limited, the prices will skyrocket, and it's not unlikely that the whole product line will tank.

I think you are right about this. So, while I won't buy the random packs, I don't advocate a change to the model. It just means I get to save my money.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the secondary market works significantly less well outside the US.

It's impossible, though. Far from it. It might mean that you have to find a shop with a large range of figures and get a bigger amount of figures at once (because of the shipping costs), and you won't be able to get three common orcs on a whim, but it's doable.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Let me tell you what I WANT in the way of minis. Then let me tell you how/why I think it can be provided to me, the consumer, at a reasonable price. Then let someone from WotC tell me why they can't make that profitable.

What I want is to purchase individual minis on demand. That is, some miniatures I will buy many of - like orcs, city guardsmen, ninjas, pirates. Many, many more I will buy only one of, maybe two - powerful monsters like dragons, individual PC/NPC sculpts. The reason I want and need to have them this way is because this is how they get used in an RPG. I won't be buying dozens and dozens of dragons of all sizes and colors - I will buy the colors and sizes that I INTEND to use in the near future.

Once I have bought these I won't need to buy them again. I personally wouldn't be buying a set of 20 orcs with falchions, 20 with spears, 20 with swords, 20 with axes, 20 with bows, etc. At least the liklihood of that would be VERY low indeed. I would buy individual monsters and NPC's at an irregular rate just as I have always bought metal miniatures. When I see PC/NPC minis in a sculpt that inspires me I buy it when I have the money so that I can one day use it - or let a player use it. I buy unusual, NON-monster manual monster minis that inspire me to create MY OWN monster builds. Sometimes I find ones that I'd like to be able to throw at my players in groups but have virtually never been able to do so - the game store where I found them only had one or two in blisters.

Here we come to how I think these can be provided to me as I need them. First, stamp the minis to be purchased with something like "NOT FOR USE WITH DDM" such that the exact same sculpts and whatever can be used and re-used but for DDM formal play they are USELESS. Second, cut out the middle-men. If these miniatures are available direct from a factory, or WotC warehouse facility then the entire question of what the distrubutors and retailers can or will accomodate is moot. It's a harsh reality but it sure seems to be a sticking point. In this day and age there is no sensible business reason to keep them in the loop. Not when they are such a stumbling block to finding a new/better means of profitability and are so easily avoided. A web page can be easily set up to provide clear, rotating views of every miniature. Hell, they do that now with the galleries for the DDM sets. I then place the order for what I need and WotC packs them up and ships them DIRECT to me. Not to a distrubutor who then ships to dozens of retailers. And altogether avoiding an AFTERMARKET influence on pricing and availability.

Obviously, the more minis I order at any one time the less I pay for shipping costs on any given mini. Just as obviously, with direct shipping from the manufacturer much more of the retail price is kept by the manufacturer. Perhaps even enough to LOWER the price of the minis a bit. The minis to be made available this way can then be chosen in whatever fashion WotC cares to use in order to ensure consistent sales.

Hell, they could put up a "wishlist" web page to ensure a minimum of sales. They choose a mini they think will sell and put it up on the page. Everyone who likes it and anticipates buying it adds their email address to a list for that mini. Once enough people have signed up to potentially buy it the mini is formally added to the list of directly available minis and an email is sent to all those who singed up enabling them to immediately purchase it or add it to their next order. Meanwhile, the regular DDM market and aftermarket goes about its business with the possible advantage that it is now LESS influenced in its pricing by interference from RPG interests.

Can someone tell me why, given perhaps some relatively minor changes in details, this wouldn't work?

I certainly see this as the best way to get that Gelatinous Cube I still want.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Great! Link me to twenty standard orcs in up to four poses, please.

Uh Ok


Orc Savage


Orc mauler


Howling Orc


Orc Wizard

Was that supposed to be hard?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Here we come to how I think these can be provided to me as I need them. First, stamp the minis to be purchased with something like "NOT FOR USE WITH DDM" such that the exact same sculpts and whatever can be used and re-used but for DDM formal play they are USELESS.

So you want to further limit the market for these minis by making them useless for skirmishers?

Not that the skirmishers are that many.

And they're not the reason why Wizards won't make what you want. If you can't be bothered to read the previous posts in this topic and/or those in the topic linked above, I can't be bothered to repeat it.

Second, cut out the middle-men. If these miniatures are available direct from a factory, or WotC warehouse facility then the entire question of what the distrubutors and retailers can or will accomodate is moot.

Ah, so you want Wizards to do a U-Turn and instead of supporting the local stores (with some practises I personally don't like) to tell them "go home and die?"

Wizards is very friendly to local gaming stores. They do a lot of stuff that will get people into the stores. Those retailer kits are only one example. They won't do the exact opposite.

I then place the order for what I need and WotC packs them up and ships them DIRECT to me. Not to a distrubutor who then ships to dozens of retailers. And altogether avoiding an AFTERMARKET influence on pricing and availability.

And still pay 30+ quid for the Beholder. And 5 for that orc warrior. At this point, they have already shown how greedy they are by cutting out (and down) the brick and mortar stores, so they won't getting charitable on the end consumer. They know people pay 30 quid for a Beholder, so that's what they charge for it.

Perhaps even enough to LOWER the price of the minis a bit.

Ha ha.

Oh, you meant that seriously?

Meanwhile, the regular DDM market and aftermarket goes about its business with the possible advantage that it is now LESS influenced in its pricing by interference from RPG interests.

What market? They have just abandoned that. They won'd do DDM twice. They'll do it one way or the other.

If you want a figure now, you have to order it from Wizards - and pay a lot more than you did on the secondary market, especially with non-rare figures. Oh, and instead of the hundreds of minis there used to be, you only have a dozen or two, because the others weren't picked up by Wizards Direct Marketing (they weren't profitable). So you want some exotic thing like an Earth Genasi? You and maybe a thousand people, and that was not enough for Wizards to make that figure.

I certainly see this as the best way to get that Gelatinous Cube I still want.

You might get your wish with the current distribution method: It looks as if the Cube is too complex and expensive to put into boosters. They were looking at a way to make it work (making a simpler model), but since they have expanded the Icons to smaller figures, it's not unlikely that they will do it in all its splendour and sell it as an Icon.

 

[Thurbane]

I've still yet to see any convincing argument that "the market" won't support sales on non-random mini packs...all the arguments against seem to be based on a large number of preconceptions...

 

[senodam]

When I decided to finally start using minis in my D&D games I dropped £100 on DDM, and ended up with a pretty poor selection of critters- most of them were humans, elves, orcs and other such minis that I can get anywhere easily.

What I want is a source for the likes of Illithids, Beholders, and the creatures that are unique to D&D. I can buy humanoids, undead and dragons from Games Workshop, Reaper or any number of companies- all of them of a far higher quality than the DDM selection.

If WoTC were to make the individual minis available for a reasonable price- not say, £30 for a Beholder, then I'd be happy to buy. As is, I have no intention of bothering with the random minis or the ridiculously priced secondary market.