D&D 4E Non-WotC publishers - 4ed, settings, and $5,000

[Greatwyrm]

I think there will only be a handful of early-licensees and I'm pretty sure that's exactly what WotC had in mind.

Drawing answers from my somewhat cloudy memory, Goodman Games is already in. I believe Necromancer was leaning heavily in that direction. Last I knew, the juries at Mongoose and Green Ronin were still out. (If I haven't included you, it's not from a lack of respect. I just don't recall hearing your strategy.)

As far as the mostly-pdf publishers, I think 2 big opportunities exist. First, there will still be a continued demand for 3.x material from people who don't want to or for whatever reason can't adopt 4e. I'm excited about 4e, but I'm pretty darn happy with 3.5. I think there are probably a number of other people that are perfectly content to let the bugs of 4e get worked out and keep playing 3e in the meantime. Heck, I might wait a while just to make sure we don't get a 4.5.

Secondly, I think this is a big opportunity for creating entirely new games. I know this is going to border on heresy around here, but I miss the creativity and innovation of the "good old days". There are/were a lot of good reasons to be on the d20 bandwagon -- I get that. However, I think the release of 4e provides an excellent opportunity for anyone who has had an idea for an entirely new game that they've left on the back burner. Maybe not even "full size" games, but mini-games as well, like Fantasy Flight Games' "Horizons" line.

Goodman Games' "Eldritch" is an entirely new system. I know Green Ronin put "Dragon Fist" on indefinite hold (I used to be a playtester). Heck, I'm still holding out for AEG to finally do "Legend of the Burning Sands". The big d20/D&D foothold will be the weakest during the closed vs. open GSL period.

I love D&D, but I could stand something new. I love spaghetti, too, but I can't eat it every day.

 

[SSquirrel]

Well considering in just 3 days Monte is releasing what is widely being nicknamed "Monte's 3.75", it's obvious that there is a market for 3.5 as well as transitional material. Yes, I am well aware that his release was largely b/c fans on his site bugged him to release his personal mods to his home games, I post on Monte's boards too

 

[Glyfair]

Well considering in just 3 days Monte is releasing what is widely being nicknamed "Monte's 3.75", it's obvious that there is a market for 3.5 as well as transitional material.

I believe there has been no question whether there is, or even will be, interest in 3.5 material. The unknown point is how much, and whether such products will be worth the companies releasing it.

Monte has the advantage of not really being in the gaming business any more, and having most of it already designed. So, this isn't exactly a good product for determining how much of a 3.5 market there is for the average company.

 

[Mistwell]

If I were a 3rd party publisher, I would spend the $5K and get my product out there early. It wouldn't be about getting back my money with that first book. It would be about getting people to buy my book early, so that my entire line gets branded in their minds for the run of 4e.

Once the initial period ends, there will be a flood of products on the market. At that point, most products will probably get lost in the wash. However, those product lines that were already established in the earlier phase will probably continue to do well, because people will be already thinking about them and talking about them. They will already "feel" like 4e to people, in the same way that Freeport "felt" like 3e because it was a relatively early release.

 

[Mistwell]

Firstly, one should only spend the $5,000 for early access if one believes one can recoup that money over the six month window of opportunity.

Usually in business you allow for a three YEAR period for investments to show a profit. If six months were a standard window, I think no major equipment would ever be purchased by a company.

For this issue, I think the more important aspect is how much money you will make over the run of 4e by investing early. Essentially, it's the ability to capture market share early, so you can get people committed to your brand before the competition.

Think of it like advertising and marketing, not as a single product cost.

(Additionally, I will be very surprised if one cannot publish 4e-compatible materials under the existing OGL using some careful wording on compatibility statements and the like. I'm not an IP lawyer, but if I were in the 'not quite big enough to make it worthwhile' category, I would be tempted to explore that option.)

Prepare to be surprised. I think there is no chance of that.

 

[pemerton]

Prepare to be surprised. I think there is no chance of that.

Mistwell, glad to hear you express an opinion on this issue!

This came up on a couple of other IP-oriented threads a week-or-three ago, and I was wondering what the view of someon with IP law experience might be.

 

[bonethug0108]

Well, yeah, but it's mid-February and almost none of the third-party developers have even seen the 4e rules. It takes more than 4 months to design, playtest, lay out, print, and distribute a book, I'm betting... and that's if they released the rules immediately.

I haven't finished reading this thread so forgive me if this was brought up.

The last I heard, people who pay the $5,000 can start publishing in august. So if we guesstimate that 3rd party publishers get the rules around the beginning of march(right after d&dxp) that gives them 5 months. Sure it doesn't sound like that big of a difference, but in the publishing business even every week counts(everyday, really).

 

[JVisgaitis]

Usually in business you allow for a three YEAR period for investments to show a profit. If six months were a standard window, I think no major equipment would ever be purchased by a company.

The RPG business isn't the same as other businesses. Who buys equipment? All you need is a PC. I think everyone has one of those.

Prepare to be surprised. I think there is no chance of that.

You think 4e will work with the old OGL? Sorry, but there is no way on earth that will happen. That's why they are creating a whole new license. What would make you think otherwise?

 

[Glyfair]

I haven't finished reading this thread so forgive me if this was brought up.

The last I heard, people who pay the $5,000 can start publishing in august. So if we guesstimate that 3rd party publishers get the rules around the beginning of march(right after d&dxp) that gives them 5 months. Sure it doesn't sound like that big of a difference, but in the publishing business even every week counts(everyday, really).

Apparently WotC has taken the license back to the drawing board. Because of this the companies have to wait until the get the license, have a chance to review it and make a decision, start development (that is already under way in at least one case) and get it produced. Also, remember WotC had said that they wanted companies to be able to get 4E giveaways ready for Free RPG Day (in June).

 

[catsclaw227]

This was my understanding:

1. Sign NDA
2. Get copy of GSL to review
3. Pay $5000 to receive a single copy of the rules on copy-proof paper.
4. Authorized to release free item at Free RPG Day
5. Authorized to launch releases for sale beginning at Gen Con.
6. This lead time would extend through January 09.