Noncasters making Magical items

[Dog Moon]

If you don't want to read any of my explanation about my Homebrew and the reasoning behind this, just go to the last two paragraphs.

In my campaign, Arcane Magic is essentially everywhere, the power of the Gods raining down upon the world from the great Godswar [basically picture every single deity everywhere of any race fighting and all but three are killed in the end]. Spellcasters recognize this and can shape the essences around them into casting spells [sorcerers naturally just grab the correct essences while Wizards study the different sorts of essences to know what to use when casting; same rules and everything for the classes, just different fluff].

Casters can of course learn to channel this essence to create Magical Items by taking the appropriate Feat.

My idea was to allow other beings to take enough ranks in Kn(arcana) and spellcraft to be able to recognize these essences. Although they could not actually cast spells, though can [with the appropriate Metamagic Feat and enough ranks in the skills] shape the essences into Magical Items. They cannot however, make items which cast specific spells as that is beyond their capabilities as is shaping it to cast spells like a Wizard, but they can make items which do various things [like the idea of putting in the correct sort of abjuration magic to create a Cloak of Resistance +1 while not being able to shape it to create a Wand of Mage Armor].

So I was thinking that noncasters need, as Prereqs for the Metamagic Feats the Caster Level +3 in skill ranks for both Kn(arcana) and Spellcraft. So the Feat Forge Ring could be taken by a Caster of 12th+ level or anyone else with 15 ranks in both Kn(arcana) and Spellcraft. Is this just a bad idea and should never be thought of [Magical Items should only be crafted by casters no matter what]? And are the prereqs either too harsh or too easy?

Note that though I like the idea of noncasters creating Magical Items, I think it should be more difficult to qualify for them than for normal casters with the exception of the whole casting spells thing.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I think it's generally a great idea, for the right kind of campaign. I really like the incantations in d20 Modern, for instance. I like that non-wizards (for example) can access and cast certain kinds of spells through a combination of knowledge and determination.

I think that having the types of magic and magic items quite limited (i.e. +1 saves, +1 attacks, etc., and no spells) is a good idea, for starters. But, I'd probably allow the ability to transfer some low-level spells into items as well, once enough mastery had been displayed.

For instance, with a high enough Knowledge (arcana) roll, and the ability to access a scroll of cure light wounds, it seems appropriate to me to allow someone to create a potion with that spell in it. I'd imagine that it would take a lot of time, the acquisition of some hard-to-get materials, a reasonable expense (higher than it requires for a cleric to brew the potion), and some successful rolls to pull off. But, by that level, the character probably isn't overly impressed by 1d8+1 anymore. Still, I'd allow it, within reasonable constraints.

Dave

 

[Li Shenron]

? And are the prereqs either too harsh or too easy?

If you don't change the class skill lists, these requirements are going to be really harsh

I think that it would be ok even just to require one of the two skills, for example Spellcraft. It's still costly since a noncaster will have very limited use of such a skill, besides qualifying for item creation feats. Plus, a noncaster will be generally more limited in crafting, since he would need to buy scrolls/wands from others (not being able to cast spells himself).

So in a world with magic being more common than normal, you may consider making Spellcraft a class skill for everyone (could be even sort-of grouped with Craft!) and the maybe only requisite for the IC feats.

 

[Rhun]

I think this is a fine idea if it fits your campaign. Just think of the many, many novels and/or movies out there where non-spellcasters create powerful magical items.

 

[Yair]

I really liked the Earthdawn idea of all characters working magic in their own way. In a way, the ability of a warrior to shrug off a sword blow is no less magical than a fireball. Since I have deep reservations regarding gaining levels in D&D, if I were you and running your campaign I would associate level gain with "subsuming" some of the divine energy left behind after the death of the gods. Essentially, the characters become more than human as they grow in levels, they attain some semblance of the divine.

Under this premise, I would not insist on having skills to make magic items. Rather, I would work with every player that wants to make one to allow him to create one as an "artifact". I would require thematic elements instead of spells and so on. To forge a Lightning Strike Longsword you'll need some Craft (Weaponsmith) ranks, and to trap the essence of Lightning in the rod forged to make the sword (perhaps forge it at a magical place that's always bombarded by lightning?). Or maybe, taking a page from Earthdawn, you could unleash its powers after learning how that it was forged in the blood of the dead storm god.
I would price the items as normal and keep track of wealth as normal. What's matters ultimately is to keep the characters at the right power level, if I'll give such items I'll just give less treasure to the fighter and so on.

Since you're not me, you may not like this solution. If you want to stay closer to D&D, I would replace the Caster Level requirement with ONE skill. That is already a heavy investment in a skill that is, otherwise, not useful at all to the character. I would make that skill a class skill for all characters (otherwise it doesn't work). I'm not sure if the right skill is Spellcraft or Knowledge (Arcana), I think the latter works better. It's cooler to know about dragons and mystic stuff, especially as the characters won't be able to mimic spell effects.

 

[Nac_Mac_Feegle]

Maybe the items they can make should be limited by thier class sets

People who can use heavy armour and martial weapons can make these magical, only pure bonus' etc, they put a little of thier essence into them (anyone who get full BaB progression for weapons etc)

Rogues could make stealthy items, bards musical items

Then instead of using spellcraft, look at thier special abilities

A wizard needs as youre example, 12 caster levels, he could be a 6th level wizard, and 6 levels of a prestige class that allows full casting progression

A warrior would need a BaB of +12 to qualify for the same feat in regards to creating light/medium/heavy armour, shields or weapons

A rogue would need sneak attack fo +6d6-7d6 to keep in line wiht the prereqs.

This would mean that infact spellcasters couldnt make heavy armour and martial weapons, or cloaks of elven kind, it would need different races mixed with different class' to make certain special items

Heres an example, a rogue would need sneak attack +3d6 to qualify for craft magic arms and armour (instead of caster level 5th), he could then creat up to +1 light armour (at 5th) and at higher levles either more bonus' or maybe add the move silently or shadow property to armour

If you limit magic items to only being created by classes wiht the right skills (Warrior/pallies for heavy armour, Barbarians/Monks for boots of striding, elven rogues for cloaks of elven kind) and you have a large saturation of magic, you could say people automotically count as having the feat when they create an item (feats are to sparse). This would get people making items, and co-operating on items to make unusual ones, instead of wizards then having sole domain over every item creation.

Feegle Out

 

[The_Gneech]

My NPC smiths are Experts with "Use Magic Device" as one of their skills; they use scrolls, wands, etc. to put the appropriate spells into the items (passing the cost on to the purchaser). Always seemed like an easy way to have nonspellcasters crafting magic items in the RAW.

-The Gneech

 

[Nac_Mac_Feegle]

My NPC smiths are Experts with "Use Magic Device" as one of their skills; they use scrolls, wands, etc. to put the appropriate spells into the items (passing the cost on to the purchaser). Always seemed like an easy way to have nonspellcasters crafting magic items in the RAW.

-The Gneech

Good idea, of course the issue then becomes, if they are using "Use Magic Device" on a magic device to make an item, who made the original magic device? At some point there a wizard churning out a lot of items.

Feegle Out

 

[The_Gneech]

Good idea, of course the issue then becomes, if they are using "Use Magic Device" on a magic device to make an item, who made the original magic device? At some point there a wizard churning out a lot of items.

Well, that's an inherent assumption behind the idea ... in a Greyhawk/Waterdeep/Sharn type city, it's completely feasible for the master blacksmith to think of one of the city's mages as basically a "scroll/wand vendor."

The adventurer buys the magic sword from the blacksmith, but ends up paying the smith, the wizard, the dwarves who mined the ore, the teamsters who carried it from the mountain, and so on.

-The Gneech

 

[ken-ichi]

I really like this idea. Perhaps in addition to basic bonuses you can allow non casters to add certain abilities by using special materials and locations to do the crafting. The exact requirements would be handled by the DM. I would not make it too hard or expensive for a non caster to utilize this option, the extra cost of obtaining the materials should be part of the standard crafting cost.

For example, a noncaster wants to make a flaming sword. He can do so be gathering some materials from fire type creatures, like the blood of a red dragon and work the blade with free flowing lava.
If he instead wanted to create a blade with the shocking ability he might grind the teeth of a behir into a special oil and coat the blade with it during a powerful thunderstorm.
Creating a ghost touch weapon might involve finding an actual ghost and persuading it to help in a ritual. Various expensive oils and dusts of undead bones would be used to coat the weapon and the grasp of the ghost infuses the weapon with the ability.