[Not 3.5, but I wish] No one should start with the Heavy Armor proficiency.

[Simplicity]

I just realized something that would have made 3.5 much better in my opinion (it was the ranger loses medium armor thread
that did it):

Wouldn't this game be better if no classes started with the Heavy Armor proficiency? The ability to use heavy armor seems like a reasonable feat choice to me... And it's currently a feat that's rarely ever chosen because those classes that don't have the heavy armor proficiency lose abilities when they wear heavy armor.

Clerics and fighters can pay a feat to get that nice set of armor.
One more step before you start getting to the endless plusses and magical bonuses of 3rd ed. For fighters, who have an overabundance of feats, this isn't that much of a problem. For clerics, it's a more tricky situation.

What do people think?

 

[Angcuru]

Er.....ummm.....TREES ARE GREEN!

Seriously, though, this sounds like a neat idea. Also keeps down the uber-ACs you can get at starting level.

 

[Cedric]

This would make sense...if Heavy Armor was worth using...and if a starting player could actually afford it.

However, since heavy armor is only worth using for a handful of characters and no one can afford it at first level...

There's no reason for this limitation in my opinion...

Cedric

 

[youspoonybard]

Well, the fact that no one can afford it means to me that ppl probably aren't going to know how to use it very well.

Personally, if I were making a change like this, I'd give it to fighters only.

 

[Simplicity]

The argument that no one can afford heavy armor at first level
anyways is exactly why this feat would be useful. The implicit
statement in this argument is: the fighter's gets a ton of feats... he'll just pick up the heavy armor feat at 2nd level if he must.
Well, good. If the fighter's got too many feats, lets add another one in there that makes his choices more difficult. I don't think anyone believes that fighters or clerics are underpowered, so removing the automatic heavy armor prof is just gravy in my book.

There is the argument that it's realistic, since no one could afford the heavy armor... how could they know how to fight in it. But even from a sheer game balance point of view, I think this makes sense.

Fighters have an EXTREME overabundance of feats. A human fighter starts off the game, grabs Power Attack+Cleave and has pretty much gotten the best fighter feats right off the bat. Add a feat like heavy armor in there and you add more spice to the
fighter's choices.

 

[Umbran]

However, the warrior-types really weren't a problem, were they? The observation was that, at mid to high levels, the spellcasters were a touch too good.

By making warrior-types spend an extra feat to use the armor, you make the spellcasters more powerful, relatively speaking. Is that something we really need?

 

[Technik4]

Currently gets Heavy Armor Prof for free:

Cleric

Fighter

Thats it right? Personally, I don't think Cleric should get it as they really are buff enough without it (and since they dont really have much to do with their feats, it wouldnt be a big deal to get heavy armor prof).

Technik

 

[Umbran]

Thats it right?

Paladins and Warrior NPCs do, as well, IIRC.

 

[Simplicity]

However, the warrior-types really weren't a problem, were they? The observation was that, at mid to high levels, the spellcasters were a touch too good.

By making warrior-types spend an extra feat to use the armor, you make the spellcasters more powerful, relatively speaking. Is that something we really need?

My experience has been that at low-to-mid levels, the fighter
is too good. At mid-to-high, spellcasters are too good.

This change doesn't really matter to the mid-to-high level fighter class. By then, the fighter has got tons of feats. It does bring down the fighter's power a little in the lower levels, which I think is a good thing. It also helps to spread out some of the fighter's abilities. The really good fighter feats are all gotten at low levels. By the time the fighter is in the higher levels, they're throwing feat slots away with useless feats they'll never use.

This change does matter a lot to the mid-to-high level cleric. Clerics don't get as many feats, but they can get REALLY powerful item creation feats. A cleric with Craft Wand is a powerhouse. Now the cleric player's got a tough choice on their hands. Good.

The paladin is a trickier though... I'd almost want to let them have the heavy armor prof. at the start. Or at least give them a bonus feat somewhere in the chain to make up for it.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

I'd be cool with it if all heavy armor had DR 1/- or somthing like that as an extra bonus.