Not Everyone Is Interested In Being Taken Out Of Context

[MoogleEmpMog]

I think it's because a lot of folks as DMs like to say "The players overcame this situation because they played the cards they were dealt and out-thought me." not "The players overcame the situation because they had higher numbers."

Maybe. Could be? Dunno.

Because they out-thought you in a very specific venue you allowed them the opportunity to do so in, you mean. As opposed to out-thinking you at an earlier part of the process by accruing the higher numbers in the first place; these things aren't randomly rolled (unlike in the old way), they're THOUGHT about.

You want players to win tactically; optimizers want to win logistically.

 

[Teflon Billy]

I've always just thought that "Powergamers" was just what Munchkins called themselves because it sounded cooler (you know, having the word "power" in there and all) than the usual terminology.

 

[thedungeondelver]

You want players to win tactically; optimizers want to win logistically.

No, actually I never stated what I want players at my table to do. I suggested to the OP some reasons why some DMs might find powergaming anathema at their tables. Those DMs want players to win tactically.

 

[shilsen]

I realize that asking people to investigate things fully on the internet, particularly on a messageboard, is futile. The reply button is right there, after all, and the main point of a forum is that users entertain themselves by posting their knee-jerk responses. I'm fine with that.

But really, the next time you're going to quote someone, try doing it in context.

Since one can't control what other people do, I generally find the easiest method to be to remember the context when someone quotes me out of context, gets upset about something I posted, gets rude, and so on. It's some stranger on a messageboard typing at me about a game where I pretend to be a made-up character. With that context in mind, I'd feel really silly if I got the least bit upset, so I never do. And me not doing so makes it really hard for people to get angry with me without looking stupid, so it's an approach that defuses most of the tension. I've been posting here ever since Eric's boards when 3e was coming out, and I've never been in a flame war, though I've disagreed with a lot of people about things and vice versa.

In short, I understand what you mean, but I suggest you don't sweat it.

 

[moritheil]

Because you are ruining their game. It might sound silly but if optimizing becomes a core part of the game and the people at Wizards really start to concentrate on that aspect it will alter the way the game is. And not everyone wants the game to go in that direction. Wizards does listen and alter things depending on what their fans want. I'm not saying it will happen but I can see that side of things.

So . . . you (or they) think the evolution of a product due to free market pressures is a bad thing, then. Huh. I don't think I've heard that as a reason before. Interesting.

 

[chobin foot]

I've always just thought that "Powergamers" was just what Munchkins called themselves because it sounded cooler (you know, having the word "power" in there and all) than the usual terminology.

I thought "Powergamers" were BAD/cheesy/wrongfun... but "Optimizers" were GOOD/noble/fun.

So "Powergaming" sucks. "Optimization" is good.

/Same coin, different sides.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

I got ... a bunch of old-...people on ... fiery ... things

I hate old people on fiery things too, man...

 

[Kahuna Burger]

So, I got quoted out of context and a bunch of old-guard gamers are all fired up to defend their sacred way of life.

What is it about powergaming that puts people on the defensive and makes them feel illegitimate? What is it that causes the fiery speeches about how "If we're having fun, then darn it, that's good enough for us!" Why are people threatened by other peoples' competence?

I would point out that in the same post where you are complaining about being quoted out of context, you are stereotyping (a bunch of old-guard gamers), using an insulting exageration (their sacred way of life), assigning motivations (feel illigitamate, threatened), generalizing (why are people) and phrasing the discussion in terms I doubt anyone used (other peoples' competence).

In response to the question about why people dislike powergaming, part of the problem may be in your implied definition of powergaming = competence. I have built characters who were fully "competent" in an area, and due to the level of powegaming engaged in by others in the group been told in and out of character that for her to attempt an action in that area was suicide - the same action that another PC was deemed to be so "competent" in that the entire party's survival could be safely entrusted to her taking it. Competence was not enough, it was a group where if you weren't hyperspecialized you were useless and the existing PCs' level of hyperspecialization was not available to those without a backlog of Dragons and a dozen suplements. (Or to some extent to newcomers to the group, but that's another discussion). In situations where DMs design adventures to challange the hyperspecialized, those who design merely competent characters have every reason to have a problem with powergaming.

 

[el-remmen]

[mod]
This thread serves no purpose but to spread a out some kind of personal beef started in some other thread.

Don't do that.

Thanks.

[/mod]

I'm going to go look at that other thread now.