Not flat-footed in round 1

[hong]

So, who goes first is often critical in D&D. One way I was thinking to make it slightly less critical (only slightly) is that you are NOT flat-footed in round 1, even if you lose initiative.

The only time flat-footedness would apply is if there is a surprise round. Ambushes would thus still be nasty, but if you're not taken by surprise then you don't lose as much. Giving the other guy the first shot is nasty in itself, even if you keep your Dex bonus.

Obviously rogues would have to work a bit harder to sneak attack people. But since I'm not much of a fan of people one-shotting the opposition, I'm fine with that. I can give them other goodies to make up for it, if necessary.

Thoughts?

 

[Felnar]

wont the barbarian and rogue be jealous that everyone gets uncanny dodge for free?

 

[hong]

Well, it powers down UD, but it'll still help them if they do get ambushed.

And no, I don't really like UD either.

 

[Crothian]

For me it is is a miner change. I never say being flatfooted really be that big a factor expect possible with not getting AoO.

 

[hong]

For me it is is a miner change. I never say being flatfooted really be that big a factor expect possible with not getting AoO.

D00d, you ain't lived until you've seen a rogue ginsu a flat-footed guy in the 1st round of combat (surprise round: close in; 1st round: full attack).

 

[phindar]

I like UD, but I also don't think it makes much sense for two opponents who are aware of one another to be able to catch each other flat-footed, just because of the way initiative works in the game. Being flat-footed before your initiative makes sense when surprised or ambushed, but when characters are moving tactically and expecting attack (as they often would in a dungeon), its a little harder to justify.

If the group fights some bugbears in a room, and the GM decides that more bugbears will arrive 3 rounds later, if the group stays on initiative rounds they won't be flat-footed when the new opponents arrive. If they don't, they have to roll initiative again and may be caught flat-footed (or the bugbears might be), even though in game, the characters aren't doing anything different than if they'd stayed on initiative. Its one of those cases where you can really hear the gears grinding in the mechanics.

So I think this is a pretty good idea. I don't think it weakens UD as much as it makes ambushes (Hide and Mv Silent skills and spells) more important. (Rogues in particular have the Hide/Mv Silent/Bluff skills necessary to catch people flat-footed anyway. In a non-ambush situation, say like two unfriendly people in a negotiation that goes bad, if you want to catch the other guy flat-footed, it should be a Bluff opposed by Sense Motive roll, not a "I hope I win initiative" roll.)

 

[Crothian]

D00d, you ain't lived until you've seen a rogue ginsu a flat-footed guy in the 1st round of combat (surprise round: close in; 1st round: full attack).

I have seen that. And it was followed up by 4 bad guys attacking the rogue and killing him.

 

[hong]

I have seen that. And it was followed up by 4 bad guys attacking the rogue and killing him.

Silly rogue didn't know the benefit of having a buddy dim door him out, that's his fault isn't it?

 

[Crothian]

Silly rogue didn't know the benefit of having a buddy dim door him out, that's his fault isn't it?

Nope, they actually blamed the enemy wizard who countered the dim door.

 

[hong]

Nope, they actually blamed the enemy wizard who countered the dim door.

Silly rogue didn't know the benefit of ginsuing the wizard as opposed to a random mook, that's his fault isn't it?