Not letting casters cast without implements?

[cferejohn]

So I'm fine with Wizards, Warlocks, and Clerics being able to throw around magic power all day, *but* I'd like to have some method of taking that power away from them for plot reasons (i.e. characters are captured, enslaved, etc.). I can take away a fighter/ranger/rogue/etc. weapons and armor, and I'd like to be able to do something similar to spellcasting classes.

My idea is to say that characters cannot cast without an implement. However, they can make a basic implement in a pretty short time (I'm thinking over an extended rest) with non-exotic materials (i.e. a wand, staff, or rod from a stick, an orb from a roundish rock, a holy symbol from a piece of wood whittled or etched to match the character's god).

It would be obvious to observers what the character is doing: they would need to chant, wave hands, etc., and they would need their hands free.

I think this is pretty balanced with other classes being able to grab improvised weapons like sticks, rocks, chairs, etc. Improvised weapons are available immediately but a) have no inherent to-hit bonus like "real" weapons and b) don't allow characters to take advantage of feats and powers that reqire certain weapon classes (e.g. "light blades", "axes and hammers", etc.).

What do people think?

 

[Kzach]

I think it's a little bit too much.

Whereas weapon-based classes are fairly reliant on their weapons, for sure, they aren't completely useless without a weapon. Most powers can, at least to my knowledge, still be used with fists or a random chair leg.

But your method would mean casters are virtually useless without their implements.

What I think would work better is that you tie damage dice to implements. All the spells have static damage dice. Instead of this, you could either replace those dice with the type of implement used or say that the dice are reduced if the implement isn't available.

For instance, if a cleric doesn't have their holy symbol, they can still cast Healing Word, but the extra hit points are based on a d4 instead of d6.

 

[cferejohn]

I think it's a little bit too much.

Whereas weapon-based classes are fairly reliant on their weapons, for sure, they aren't completely useless without a weapon. Most powers can, at least to my knowledge, still be used with fists or a random chair leg.

But your method would mean casters are virtually useless without their implements.

What I think would work better is that you tie damage dice to implements. All the spells have static damage dice. Instead of this, you could either replace those dice with the type of implement used or say that the dice are reduced if the implement isn't available.

For instance, if a cleric doesn't have their holy symbol, they can still cast Healing Word, but the extra hit points are based on a d4 instead of d6.

Yeah, but that doesn't really address my story-problem. If you lock a warrior in a dungeon and don't give him access to chair legs or other improvised weaponry, he's not going to be able to beat the door down with his fists. The magic classes seem like the equivalent of letting prisoners walk around with BB guns and tasers. In 3.5 I remember fairly draconian measures were resorted to (such as keeping a sorcerer hovering on the edge of death to keep him captive).

I'm fine if by Paragon level "no prison can hold them", but in the heroic teir I'd like the prospect of being thrown in prison to be serious despite the fact that the PCs could beat the prison guards if they were armed.

Anyway, it's a story concern, and I appreciate that it causes balance issues. I might just institute it for that campaign (and maybe only in the heroic teir). I can see how it could be abused as a general rule, but its up to me to find things for the spellcasters to do (like, say, a knowledge-based skill challenge).

 

[WhatGravitas]

Yeah, but that doesn't really address my story-problem. If you lock a warrior in a dungeon and don't give him access to chair legs or other improvised weaponry, he's not going to be able to beat the door down with his fists.

Why not? I mean his fists are still an unarmed strike and hence as improvised weapon, no? So he can still use his powers. Why shouldn't non-martial guys be able to do that as well?

Cheers, LT.

 

[cferejohn]

Why not? I mean his fists are still an unarmed strike and hence as improvised weapon, no? So he can still use his powers. Why shouldn't non-martial guys be able to do that as well?

Yeah, but the magic guys are at pretty much full strength while the melee guys are all using 4 siders.

Hmm, maybe reduce all spell damage to 4-siders if you have no implement.

 

[Kzach]

0.o

That's what I said.