Dice4Hire
First Post
Last up, and I'd really subscribe for this feature (Morrus take notice).. a hyper modded features and pure game discussion forum where any non-constructive bitching is hammered.
Like your bitching?
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The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
November 16th release for Web-based Character Builder
- Thread starter mudbunny
- Start date
Like your bitching?
@DicE:
Thanks for the witty and insightful social commentary. Much appreciated.
Seriously..
Yes I am in the complaining pool. Never said I wasn't. But I'm not complaining about things I can't control or bitching about things I can work around. If this approach doesn't work to point out an ongoing problem with the community, I'll leave it.
The DDI tools are getting a facelift and they're making a choice to control resources. OK. Nuff said. The day I can't run my game with the tools, I might complain. That stated, I'll take it directly to WoTC with the commentary of my player group in tow, with an exact user case the explains why it's a problem that could affect a lot of playing groups, not just mine.
I will not come to enWorld or some other site dedicated to gaming and flame out on the issues that I do not rightly know exist yet. Seems silly, foolish, ignorant of reality, whatever I choose to call it. But what I didn't do was insult anyone directly.
So in reply to your "your bitching or you don't like it" nonsense you just posted above I reply once and only once in kind.
You're a douchebag Dice.
In fairness, that's all I'll say about that. We're even.
Thanks,
KB
Mod Edit:
This, Ladies and Gents, is what we call a flagrant violation of EN World's #1 rule - Keep it civil.
If you don't like what someone has to say, you can respond in a polite and respectful manner, report them if you feel they are breaking the rules, or ignore them and move on. Insulting them is not an option. ~Umbran
Thanks for the witty and insightful social commentary. Much appreciated.
Seriously..
Yes I am in the complaining pool. Never said I wasn't. But I'm not complaining about things I can't control or bitching about things I can work around. If this approach doesn't work to point out an ongoing problem with the community, I'll leave it.
The DDI tools are getting a facelift and they're making a choice to control resources. OK. Nuff said. The day I can't run my game with the tools, I might complain. That stated, I'll take it directly to WoTC with the commentary of my player group in tow, with an exact user case the explains why it's a problem that could affect a lot of playing groups, not just mine.
I will not come to enWorld or some other site dedicated to gaming and flame out on the issues that I do not rightly know exist yet. Seems silly, foolish, ignorant of reality, whatever I choose to call it. But what I didn't do was insult anyone directly.
So in reply to your "your bitching or you don't like it" nonsense you just posted above I reply once and only once in kind.
You're a douchebag Dice.
In fairness, that's all I'll say about that. We're even.
Thanks,
KB
Mod Edit:
This, Ladies and Gents, is what we call a flagrant violation of EN World's #1 rule - Keep it civil.
If you don't like what someone has to say, you can respond in a polite and respectful manner, report them if you feel they are breaking the rules, or ignore them and move on. Insulting them is not an option. ~Umbran
Last edited by a moderator:
jbear
First Post
Did you just call someone a douchebag?
Why?
Noone insulted you. They pointed that by complaining you were doing exactly what you were complaining about.
So I don't think you're qualified to judge what is foolishness or not.
Whether you like it or not this decision/announcement by WotC has stirred a hornet's nest of opinions. People are within their rights to express their opinions. I just sludged through 24 pages of posts and I'm pretty darn sure you are the first person to directly insult anyone.
Anyway, I'm sure the Mods will have more to say.
As for my opinion about the change...
When Scribble began a post named 'Place the Flag', I predicted the next Web Tool announcement by WotC would in part be a solid kick in the knackers for many DDI subscribers, with the CB and Adventure tools going exclusively online.
SO I was fairly close on that prediction, assuming the Adventure tools will follow suit in the future.
I also predicted the announcement would go hand in hand with the announcement of a new tool that would soften the blow. That may (or may not) be in the pipeline, to be announced in the near future, but for now that part of my prediction was incorrect.
And I guess that is where my surprise generates from. I am pretty sure that WotC had to be aware that an exclusively online CB would have a significant negative customer backlash. I had figured that this is something they would desperately want to avoid at this stage.
With Essentials coming out, a change of tact in design philosophy as far as classes and monsters that had been receiving a lot of positive feedback, darksun campaign receiving very positive feedback, the promise of the unification of essentials with 'classic?' 4e ... it seemed public opinion of 4e was beginning to sway positively. Sigh ... and now another rift ...
I can imagine that WotC weighed up their options and whatever was on the other end of the scale outweighed this negativity. i understand their 'Silence-til-complete' policy but it do think it would have been wise to coincide this announcement with something to sweeten it a bit more.
From what I have read so far the public opinion is largely split three ways between Blind Fury, Indifference, and Positivity (not an overwhelming amount of that however). When at least half of your current customers are either furious or indifferent to the new web tools, they hardly come under the category of an exciting announcement, in my opinion. The prospect of being limited to 20 characters on the builder is far from exciting to me at least. I have 108 characters on my current builder.
How do I feel about it personally? I'm a little unsure. I think largely I'm going to remain sitting on the fence and quietly observing how things look in a few months from now. I know I'll be fine because I already have enough material to fill a life time of adventures. My biggest fear and frustration is how this may affect the opinions of new players who have come across Red Box or Essentials, and with all the illusion in the world stumble into a negative enviroment such as this thread, only to have that illusion curbed.
I have maintained since day one that WotC is listening to customer feedback. I don't think that will change now. I do think they will try and win over public opinion as soon as they can. I really do hope they manage to do that, because I hope 4e has a long and healthy life.
Fingers Crossed.
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When 4e started the biggest trolls were the ones who came into threads and bashed WotC and people who enjoyed 4e. Nowadays the opposite is true. I guess the community has really come full circle
Complaining is very therapeutic, especially when there's not just one person doing it but rather a consensus. If people feel wronged they have a right to express it, just as anyone else has the right to ignore the complaining.
Complaining is very therapeutic, especially when there's not just one person doing it but rather a consensus. If people feel wronged they have a right to express it, just as anyone else has the right to ignore the complaining.
Hmmm. I've got about 50 or 60 PC's on my PC that I've thrown together mostly for fun/learning (you know, throw it at the wall and see what sticks?). I also have another 10-15 NPCs - each statted out at several different levels - that I've prepared in CB as companion characters.
I'm not all that hard of a sell when it comes to D&D. But they're just not making it easy to buy in to this brave new, online DDi world of theirs.
Maybe they need to rediscover that old 3e slogan, "Options, not restrictions"?
Dice4Hire
First Post
That's all I have to say about that.
Ahrimon
Bourbon and Dice
I'll put my money on the 20 character limit being in place to prevent account sharing. I don't blame them. They want everyone to have thier own account. And I don't blame them for not saying as much. They have to practice as much damage control as possible with an announcment as full of emotion as this new builder.
RLBURNSIDE
First Post
here's a constructive idea
when and if they do implement the export from the new online CB, why not export it in a non-edition-wars-creating filename? Instead of .dnd45e, they could easily pick like .dnd4b or something innocuous like that. If the files are not themselves compatible using the de-facto (at least initially) program used to open them, it makes sense to transition to a new format that has new data and layouts, as a new native file format, with .dnd4e files being an import-only file format.
Let's not pretend that the new CB will not mangle the compatibility of your files just for expediency's sake. It wouldn't be expedient to those of us who plan on using both for a while (because the Essentials CB, if it sucks, will be abandoned by our group, or even never adopted in the first place, unless it provides a good value). Right now the main benefit of using this new CB for people who don't necesserily need Essentials or Dark Sun classes, would be the generic feats and errata that the old CB will never receive, and it just gets to be too much effort after a while.
I, for one, need the updated powers and feats since I play a hybrid paladin and look forward to the Class Compendium updates on the classic ranger as well. So the new CB does provide value, insomuch as the new feats / powers are clearly superior and fix bugs in the way the game is played. When I went from a pure paladin to a hybrid, I didn't realize at first how crappy it would be to play a class loaded with immediate action powers that vie with my mark mechanics. There was negative synergy that I'm glad is now fixed, but at a cost : To have a printed sheet with it I'd have to "house rule" my at-will in the old builder, or just pay for one or two months for the online CB. You don't need to print out a new sheet every single level.
Every tier of play, yes most definitely. And with the latest feats and errata included. I don't need to pay 20 bucks a month to add a +1 to my sheet, personally. But those fancy new Ax Expertise and Superior Defense feats...ohh yeah.
when and if they do implement the export from the new online CB, why not export it in a non-edition-wars-creating filename? Instead of .dnd45e, they could easily pick like .dnd4b or something innocuous like that. If the files are not themselves compatible using the de-facto (at least initially) program used to open them, it makes sense to transition to a new format that has new data and layouts, as a new native file format, with .dnd4e files being an import-only file format.
Let's not pretend that the new CB will not mangle the compatibility of your files just for expediency's sake. It wouldn't be expedient to those of us who plan on using both for a while (because the Essentials CB, if it sucks, will be abandoned by our group, or even never adopted in the first place, unless it provides a good value). Right now the main benefit of using this new CB for people who don't necesserily need Essentials or Dark Sun classes, would be the generic feats and errata that the old CB will never receive, and it just gets to be too much effort after a while.
I, for one, need the updated powers and feats since I play a hybrid paladin and look forward to the Class Compendium updates on the classic ranger as well. So the new CB does provide value, insomuch as the new feats / powers are clearly superior and fix bugs in the way the game is played. When I went from a pure paladin to a hybrid, I didn't realize at first how crappy it would be to play a class loaded with immediate action powers that vie with my mark mechanics. There was negative synergy that I'm glad is now fixed, but at a cost : To have a printed sheet with it I'd have to "house rule" my at-will in the old builder, or just pay for one or two months for the online CB. You don't need to print out a new sheet every single level.
Every tier of play, yes most definitely. And with the latest feats and errata included. I don't need to pay 20 bucks a month to add a +1 to my sheet, personally. But those fancy new Ax Expertise and Superior Defense feats...ohh yeah.
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