NPC Class: Priest

[seasong]

Modified the weapon proficiency thing. Makes sense, shoulda been that way for the cleric originally .

Modified the domain skills for consistency and usefulness. Skills points for the Knowledge domain, I like it!

Regarding armored/fighting priests: Take a level of fighter, or take the proficiency. Having looked at it pretty hard, I don't think this is a significant enough disadvantage that I need to make the priest a tank, and it's the sort of character concept that 3rd edition multiclassing was written for.

 

[Pbartender]

Hey Seasong...

Neat class. I was directed to the thread, because I had a domain house rule almost identical to what you're doing with them here.

Anyway, my first impression of the class was this... "It's a Wizard who uses Cleric class abilities."

You swap Arcane (Int) spells for Divine (Wis) with no spellbook.
You add in modified domains and Turning/Rebuking.
You increase skill points to 4/lvl.
If I'm not mistaken you combine class skill lists, use wizard BAB, Saves, Spells per day, HPs, Bonus feats and Proficiencies.

My second thought was, "It wouldn't take much to turn this into a generic spellcasting class."

My third thought was, "If I it switched to using Intelligence for the spellcasting ability, put the spellbook back in, and gave it access to both Cleric and Wizard spell lists, it would make a great alternate wizard for the Dark Age British Isles style campaign setting I'm thinking about. Then I could get rid of Clerics altogether and make Druids the default Wisdom spellcasters."

Let me think on it.

 

[seasong]

Neat class. I was directed to the thread, because I had a domain house rule almost identical to what you're doing with them here.

Feel free to share the rules or a linky

Anyway, my first impression of the class was this... "It's a Wizard who uses Cleric class abilities."

Yup. Some balancing acts with altered skills and whatnot, but basically, yup.

You swap Arcane (Int) spells for Divine (Wis) with no spellbook.
You add in modified domains and Turning/Rebuking.
You increase skill points to 4/lvl.
If I'm not mistaken you combine class skill lists, use wizard BAB, Saves, Spells per day, HPs, Bonus feats and Proficiencies.

The class list is a bit different from either (Diplomacy SHOULD have been in the cleric's original list, of course).

My second thought was, "It wouldn't take much to turn this into a generic spellcasting class."

My third thought was, "If I it switched to using Intelligence for the spellcasting ability, put the spellbook back in, and gave it access to both Cleric and Wizard spell lists, it would make a great alternate wizard for the Dark Age British Isles style campaign setting I'm thinking about. Then I could get rid of Clerics altogether and make Druids the default Wisdom spellcasters."

It will be a bit more powerful that way, but sounds cool .

 

[Technik4]

Couple more suggestions:

Allow a priest to take an additional domain as a bonus feat.

Add morningstar to their list of weapons (just seems pretty priestly, alternately the Heavy Asperigillium is a cool weapon from Races of Faerun. Its basically a morning star with 3 compartments for holy water, which can be released by pressing a button on the handle, refilling is a full-round action that provokes).

Is knowledge too powerful? Its twice the bonus of a racial ability (generally domain powers give about a feat's worth of power, give or take, 8 skill points and 2 per level is at least 2 feats' worth). Perhaps allow the knowledge domain to be taken more than once (can't have too much knowledge )

Since youre going with a wizard spells per day (+1 domain spell) maybe to compensate a little further (as well as to add something) add another domain spell at higher levels. This makes clerics more distinctive (and makes more domains a better thing, when you have 3 options for 2 slots instead of 2 options for 1 slot). So at 3rd you get a 2nd domain spell of 1st level, 5th is another 2nd, 7th is another 3rd, 9th is another 4th, 11th is another 5th, 13th is another 6th, 15th is another 7th, 17th is another 8th, and 19th is another 9th (I mostly wrote those out to make sure it works for all spell levels).

Spontaneous Casting- Ah, I see youve changed this around as well. Forcing clerics who want to spontaneous heal take the healing domain I see? Of course thats pretty fair, but I think my above idea still fits.

Technik

 

[seasong]

Allow a priest to take an additional domain as a bonus feat.

Combined with the spontaneous casting, this looks like it will make the class a little too good. And for those who do want it, they can just call it a divine feat, and voila!

Add morningstar to their list of weapons (just seems pretty priestly, alternately the Heavy Asperigillium is a cool weapon from Races of Faerun. Its basically a morning star with 3 compartments for holy water, which can be released by pressing a button on the handle, refilling is a full-round action that provokes).

Morning stars are "kind of priestly" because of one of those D&D sacred cows . They are a warrior's weapon, very nasty. Maces (non-functional) have been used as signs of divine significance in a lot of cultures, so I might add mace.

Is knowledge too powerful? Its twice the bonus of a racial ability (generally domain powers give about a feat's worth of power, give or take, 8 skill points and 2 per level is at least 2 feats' worth). Perhaps allow the knowledge domain to be taken more than once (can't have too much knowledge )

Good point. It should have been +4 and +1/level .

Since youre going with a wizard spells per day (+1 domain spell) maybe to compensate a little further (as well as to add something) add another domain spell at higher levels.

. How much compensation does the priest need for being lower than the most powerful class in the game?

 

[Technik4]

Noticed you included 0-level spells with domain bonuses. Intentional?

Most powerful in the game is true, however to what degree? They can be ruinous if abused, but in a lot of games where they are played by regular people they are not that powerful (especially considering the possible roleplaying restrictions any dm can lay upon them).

Perhaps a better balance is to look at your priest compared to druid:

A druid and a priest have the same skill points/level, druid has a larger list.

A druid has better saving throws (good fort) and a better hit die.

A druid has a better BAB and despite oath restrictions better access to weapons and armor.

A priest ends up with slightly more spells (1 addtl per level) until at 11th the druid starts getting more 1st - 5th level spells. This is an advantage for the priest.

Priests have spontaneous casting and a better spell list for the most part (possibly being remedied in 3.5 with a better druid list).

A priest has turning vs a druid's wildshaping. They arent really comparable, but I'd say that taking into account the priest's domain powers they are equal power-wise.

Druids get animal companions.

Druids get some unique abilities like Venom Immunity, A thousand faces, and Timeless Body. Priests get bonus feats every 5 levels.

I've never heard that druids are overpowered, and they seem to be coming in ahead of priests. Priests clearly favor the spell-casting aspect, but I'm wondering if they have "enough" spells. Currently most clerics invest in wands of cure X because they dont have enough spells/day to heal an entire party (or the inclination). Your priests receive even less spells than a cleric (who won't be present for comparison sakes, but is what you are basing the class off of).

Domain Idea: Benevolent- give a healing touch like the paladin's.

It's coming along nicely.

Technik

 

[seasong]

Noticed you included 0-level spells with domain bonuses. Intentional?

Erg, no... thanks . I will correct that shortly.

Most powerful in the game is true, however to what degree? They can be ruinous if abused, but in a lot of games where they are played by regular people they are not that powerful (especially considering the possible roleplaying restrictions any dm can lay upon them).

In lots of games where wizards are played by regular people, the wizards don't change the rules of the game at the higher levels. The cleric is powerful if he's played reasonably well, not just if he's abused. And any class can be played poorly; if anything, the cleric's combined combat and spell casting abilities help reduce the chances of that.

This class will require more subtle play, but will, I think, still do well.

Perhaps a better balance is to look at your priest compared to druid:

Anything but to a wizard?

That's a joke, BTW. While I'm building it off of the wizard, I'm hoping to have a balanced class in and of itself.

I've never heard that druids are overpowered, and they seem to be coming in ahead of priests.

With the analysis you gave, druids come in ahead of clerics, if just barely. I'm inclined to say that the cleric's spell list makes them a lot better than the druid; the druid has some whack powers, but so does the monk (for those inclined to a monk-fighter comparison)... the powers don't make up for the more restrictive spell list.

Priests clearly favor the spell-casting aspect, but I'm wondering if they have "enough" spells. Currently most clerics invest in wands of cure X because they dont have enough spells/day to heal an entire party (or the inclination).

True.

Domain Idea: Benevolent- give a healing touch like the paladin's.

Hm... how about that replacing the current healing domain power? I never liked the "+1 hp on your heal spells" effect.

 

[Technik4]

I agree about the Healing Domain. Alternately the healing domain would be cool if it made you +1 caster level and increased the cap on your spells by 1 (so your cure lt wounds cures 6d8+6 instead of 5d8+5).

I might not have weighted their spell list disadvantage enough, but clerics are equal to druids in many of the other respects, and more importantly, their spell list is keyed to the class. What I mean is it makes sense for a cleric to cast rightous might and divine power and wade into battle. Those spells are on the priest list (currently) but don't really make sense, as if they tried to do that they would get slaughtered.

In that sense, the way to get the most out of this class would be to do what Monte Cook did with the sorceror, totally rework the priest's spell-list. Of course, I think it sounds like a lot of work, but I'd be willing to critique one if you posted it

Technik

 

[seasong]

I think you are right. The spell list needs to be firmed up. Damn. That is a lot of work. It will just have to wait until my other projects are out of the way, then .

Someday, though .

 

[Technik4]

Another Comparison

http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/priest.htm

This is hong's priest class. Couple things he did that we've been talking about are there, including beefed hd, extra domain, extra domain spells. He based it more off of the shaman from OA.

After looking at this I think it would be interesting to allow a 4th domain at 20th level, just to show how much you embody your lord (by taking on more of their aspects).

Technik