NPC interactions with the environment or other NPC

[Nikosandros]

In general I like the system in Numenera of making players roll for everything, but I'm a bit puzzled by what happens when an NPC is interacting with the environment or other NPC.

For example, a scout is considered level 4 for exploration and geography; how well is he able to guide the group? A level 3 ally is fighting a monster along the party; how is that adjudicated?

 

[CAFRedblade]

NPC Levels work just like Monster Levels. It's their level of competence.

If the PC's needed to make a level 4 check to successfully navigate dangerous terrain, the Level 4 scout succeeds.. but would normally fail a Level 5 and higher check.

Same with the NPC fighter, against a Level 3 monster (or below) he should be able to kill it, but would normally be defeated by a higher level monster.

You could create circumstantial modifiers, or GM narrate things to change this however.

 

[Nikosandros]

I can see applying a simple level comparison for the exploration scenario, but it doesn't seem to work as well in combat. If the NPC is fighting alongside the party, combat will be resolved round by round and so there is a need to determine if the NPC is able to hit (or dodge) with any given attack. A fully deterministic resolution seems a bit boring to me.

 

[Janx]

I can see applying a simple level comparison for the exploration scenario, but it doesn't seem to work as well in combat. If the NPC is fighting alongside the party, combat will be resolved round by round and so there is a need to determine if the NPC is able to hit (or dodge) with any given attack. A fully deterministic resolution seems a bit boring to me.

the nature of your inquiry strikes me as odd.

NPCs handle combat the same as PCs. Roll to hit, use AC, roll damage. Often times, I'll hand control of the ally NPC for combat to a player (at least the dice rolling).

Why would you use a different resolution system for NPCs from PCs for such simple things?

[edit]: i see you tagged this numenera. Is this a rules question? if so, is there a sub forum for such. As a general discussion question, I stand by my comment that I would resolve the NPC the same as a PC.

 

[biotech66]

I'd run it that that guide gets them where they need to go and give the players the option to allow the guide to get them lost for XP. If the players got the guide then if they didn't want that to search for them selves, thats not the story they want so I wouldn't make them do that as part of your story.

I also wouldn't make the guide part of combat since it takes away from the PCs being the big, damn heroes.

 

[Imaro]

Well I think the Numenera corebook addresses this in a couple of ways (...and remember this is only for actions where the NPC's are not opposing the PC's in some way since they would otherwise be using their level) but then leaves the desired implementation up to the GM...

The first way is for the GM to just decide success or failure for an NPC based on his own desires, flow of the game, etc. This is the simplest method and I would use this for unimportant/irrelevant/scene dressing NPC's as well as for things that happen "off-screen" or outside the influence of the PC's and have no direct effect on them.

Another method touched on in the book is for the NPC's level to be assessed and compared with the level of what he or she is trying to accomplish and they either succeed because they have a higher level than the challenge or fail because they have a lower level than the challenge. I'd probably use this method for minor NPC's since it would allow them to tackle somethings when working with the PC's but still leave the major stuff for the PC's to handle.


Another (and I believe final method, though I could be wrong) is suggested for NPC vs. NPC (but I plan to use it in a more widespread way for Major NPC's). This method is for the NPC's to be treated like a player with rolls, etc. This method, IMO, is a little imprecise since PC's and NPC's don't work on the same system, and NPC's don't have the stats (training, specializations, etc.) that are used in rolls. The book is kind of vague on how to address the fact that most NPC's only have a level.

I've been thinking about refining and adding to this by deciding that, when using this method, an NPC's level is subtracted from the difficulty level of a particular task before rolling to succeed or fail. So if the level of a task is 3 and a level 1 NPC is attempting it... it would be a level 2 task, roll over 6 while a level 3 NPC would automatically succeed. This modification draws heavily from the second method (but instead of making it an absolute pass/fail instead gives a chance for the NPC to succeed even at difficulties of a higher level). This is just something I thought of while reading the book and I would still need to see how it is in actual play but I think it should work pretty well since NPC's can't use effort... though I'm not sure if I would allow them to use assets such as tools (though I'm leaning towards yes).

 

[Nikosandros]

[edit]: i see you tagged this numenera. Is this a rules question? if so, is there a sub forum for such. As a general discussion question, I stand by my comment that I would resolve the NPC the same as a PC.

Yes, it's a Numenera question. I've used the tag, but I should have made the OP more explicit (I've now slightly edited it).

It is halfway between a rules question and a request for suggestions. Which sub forum are you referring to?

 

[Janx]

Yes, it's a Numenera question. I've used the tag, but I should have made the OP more explicit (I've now slightly edited it).

It is halfway between a rules question and a request for suggestions. Which sub forum are you referring to?

beats me, that's what I was asking as well. I don't know if numenara has its own sub-forum (though Monte's site probably has one).


As a general discussion, it smells like Numenara made different rules for NPCs than PCs use (not a Numenara guy, I don't know). Which is a difference from 3.x (what I play), where pretty much all monsters/NPCs use the same rules for everything that PCs use.

I suspect that a more balanced approach between both would help. There's some things that NPCs can benefit from a level of abstraction from PCs. There are other things that don't benefit from over-handling differently.

For an NPC interacting with other non-PC things (environment, other NPCs) perhaps it's just as well to just use their level as the deciding factor (maybe a skill contest, with character level as skill level).

Once the NPC is interacting on PC terms, they probably need some translating into PC terms. So an NPC fighting as an ally with PCs probably needs similar basic stats (attack, damage, AC, HP, whatever). But not a full list of skills/equipment/powers