numerera GM intrusions: help me get it

[evilbob]

I've read all the advice on how to play - most of it twice - especially the stuff about GM intrusions. And I still can't shake the feeling that they basically amount to an "eff you" button for the GM to pull on players.

Similar to the 13th Age icon rolls (player-driven enforced randomness), this is a mechanic that seems tailored to a GM style that I guess I just don't use or haven't experienced. In my mind: I -want- the PCs to succeed. I -hate- the feeling of GMs screwing you over just because they enjoy feeling powerful. I've experienced that before and I NEVER want to do that - ever. And, I feel like getting off that lucky shot that fells the boss is way more interesting than your bowstring breaking at the critical moment. The book goes on and on about being consistent and having a world with consistent rules, but GM intrusions seem completely capricious. Actually, it seems like - no matter how many times the book claims that it is not railroading - like railroading.

Obviously, I'm not getting it. When trying to imagine using these in play, I feel like I'd be being a complete ass. The thing that they are supposed to be doing - "freeing" the GM from the dice rolls - is something I've always done. Allowing players to get off the path while subtly guiding them back on is something already ingrained in how I run games. I've never needed to force the PCs to do something because - as they sort of say in the book - if your campaign can be derailed because of a bad roll, then why would you have them make the roll in the first place?

The bad thing is, though, the entire XP system is heavily, heavily keyed into this mechanic. If I wanted to leave out GM intrusions, it's not as easy as ignoring icon rolls. I'd have to do some serious messing with the system to cover the lack of XP the game expects.

So what am I missing? What's a good way to handle these? What are some better examples of GM intrusions in play that don't make you just seem like the Nelson "HA HA" game master? Or is Monte just sort of a jerk?

 

[morgurth]

Well, the book says the GM should throw in an intrusion when the character is doing something that would normally be an automatic success. Like you are are climbing a wall, but it is an automatic success. Then GM can say "the wall is crumbling and a bit gives way." Then the player has to roll the difficulty 2 task (i.e. 6 or better on a d20). That kind of thing helps make up for boring skill encounters. I played some 4E where one player happened to have just the right mix of skills to auto success every part of a multi skill challenge. It wasn't very fun...

The monsters in the book also have some suggested intrusions you can use to add a bit of flavor to the the fight. Those things could help make it more memorable than just killing another random monster.

That's still not the only way to give out XP. You are encouraged to give out XP for discoveries. The player's found something interesting while exploring, or got an old artifact running again. All these can give the character progress, if you aren't interested in the other types of intrusions. You could certainly use that as a way to allow the player's to go up in Tier.

For example, I was playing in a group and while approaching an abhuman camp, we got a GM intrusion of a guard we hadn't spotted making a patrol and coming across myself and some others who were waiting while the Jack's snuck into the camp. We weren't able to silence him fast enough, so the entire camp was alerted. One of the Glaive's was knocked down. On his turn, he wanted to "ninja flip" onto the mounts. The GM decided that was a difficulty 6 task. He rolled an 18! Everyone was excited. At least until he charged the main abhuman while mounted and rolled a 1. The GM intrusion was that he lost his balance on the swing and fell off into a burning tent taking 2 Might damage.

We still talk about it. It was really funny (and also that player's first time ever playing a pen and paper RPG).

 

[dm4hire]

I like using intrusions in combat when a player is obviously having better luck than others, such as constantly rolling high so they do lots of damage. I intrude then to either give more hit points back to the monster or something along that line so that it gives the other players a chance to take down the mob. In one fight a player had done almost all the damage and by intruding I allowed another player the chance to finish off the mob; that player hadn't got a hit in all night until then.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

How do you introduce intrusions? More to the point, are the players aware that you've used an intrusion?

 

[el_stiko]

They've either rolled a 1 or you're offering them XP, so they would know an intrusion for what it is.

 

[evilbob]

Excellent thoughts, thank you! Please keep 'em coming...

I've thought a lot about the "roll even when you don't have to" idea and the combat penalty intrusions, and those are good, fair points. One thing that makes me hesitate about using them is that anything that slows down the game or negates player (not character) effort/skill can be potentially more draining than helpful. In other words: the idea that they reduced a difficulty to automatic is a big reward - why take that away? And if it's automatic, that just speeds up the game, right? Also, maybe I'm still a bit gun-shy from our 4.0 days, but anything that can cause combat to take longer is generally a non-starter for me. I'd never give HP back to an enemy, but I do like the idea of helping to shift the focus to another player, or helping to "balance" the spotlight. I'll have to give the bestiary another look for more ideas, too, just to make the monsters more unique (although if there's one thing you can say about Numenera monsters: they are unique.)

The XP-for-discoveries bit is definitely the baseline, and I expect that will still easily be the majority of the XP given. But maybe I can just expand on that idea, and start giving discovery XP for more minor events, like finding a new monster or a new town or something. Kind of like in Fallout when you discover a new area of the map...

 

[CAFRedblade]

Think of Intrusions as Complications to the Narrative..
That small but significant plot twist, where, while perhaps expected, but most likely not, things go sideways for the PC's.

Perhaps the console to door they were hacking to get to a specific area goes haywire and opens a different longer, more dangerous path.

Or during combat, perhaps the enemy gets a second wind and gets health back, or finds an extra opening..

Intrusion shouldn't be purely deadly, unless the PC's were trying something with very low chance of success and fumbled..

 

[evilbob]

That's a good way to put it, which led me to this thought: maybe I can "fake" intrusions by pretending that they were nefarious plot twists but really they were the same ol' plot twists I was going to introduce anyway? I guess the downside is that players can "vote" your plot twists away with their XP, but then again, maybe that's useful to gauge player interest... Also, it'd be hard to introduce one an hour...

So far I'm starting to like the idea of solving the problem a different way: mostly ignoring intrusions and giving extra XP for minor discoveries, like new areas they've never seen, or figuring out something about a new monster they've never seen (even if it's just how to get past it without fighting). I don't want to indirectly encourage combat, but incentivizing discoveries - even dangerous ones - seems more in line with the game's spirit. I suppose you could dig yourself a hole quickly if someone has the "scan" ability or they're specialized in perception and they're always the ones gaining XP for discovering things; I'd have to be careful how I rewarded the PCs for that stuff. Of course, it could also be funny, like a fighter-type "discovering" that the insides of the monster are blue when it bleeds all over him or something like that... Or, I could just give 1 XP to each PC for all minor events, and just try to have less than one minor event reward an hour...

 

[Emerikol]

I don't like them because they are so metagame. Offering the player some XP and then based on that decision having something in world happen. Ouch. How can you get immersed in a game with such things going on?

 

[evilbob]

For me, the XP reward for intrusions - which is there to "soften" the blow - just seems like a conciliatory excuse for the GM to be a jerk. I'm sure the main issue here is the "sudden unexpected bad turn of events" - i.e. what an intrusion basically is - is something that I find especially icky thanks to witnessing some GM abuse of this sort of power in the past. It's really difficult for me to wrap my head around how this could be a positive thing, even indirectly (you fall down a hole - but find a new tunnel!). It's especially difficult to think about doing that so often that nearly half the PC's XP comes from intrusions. If one sudden, unexpected bad turn of events happened every hour to my group of friends, I'd believe the world we lived in was fickle and cruel, not interesting and fun. And knowing that a person - the GM - was responsible for those things, and not just random chance: it's hard to imagine wanting to game with that person.

I know this is supposed to be "balanced" by the reward - each sudden bad turn of events should lead to two rerolls, or one new skill, or something along those lines - but it feels like the numbers wouldn't be nearly enough in the "good" column to justify the bad. I heard somewhere once that if 3+ positive experiences happen for every 1 negative experience (a ratio), it improves your mood and outlook on life. GM intrusions feel like they'd be upsetting that ratio.

Also, looking back over the combat suggestions in the bestiary, nearly all of those feel pretty "cheap." Most of them could be summarized as "the enemy gets a free attack" or maybe does more damage. If something like that happens when I roll a 1, that still feels much more "acceptable." Just happening to happen seems frustrating.

In the end, I feel this comes down to a personal preference on my part and a style of play that I just don't understand. I think talking things out in this thread has been helpful, though. I feel like my best resolution is to just minimize intrusions and go with the "extra XP for discoveries" idea.