OA - Iaijutsu Master broken?

[troy31]

It is for dueling

Iajutsu focus and the Iajutsu Master were created for one thing only: duels. That's it. And without Iajutsu, you can't do duels. Well, not duels that fit the flavor of a Japanese setting. Most duels to the death were one-hit and dead. How do you simulate that with a d10 weapon on someone over 2nd level?

You can't.

So, they made Iajutsu Focus and put the deuling rules in so you can kill someone better or worse then you depending on your roll. I like it. Without it, the whole dueling aspect of the samurai wouldn't work.

A samurai duel is about skill, control, and a quick finish. They didn't hack each other to bits wearing down hit points with round after round of small damage. They took out their opponent in one deadly strike. See the deul in "The Seven Samurai" for a great example. Then try to apply d20 rules to that situation without using any of the Iajutsu stuff.

 

[hong]

Re: It is for dueling

Iajutsu focus and the Iajutsu Master were created for one thing only: duels. That's it. And without Iajutsu, you can't do duels. Well, not duels that fit the flavor of a Japanese setting. Most duels to the death were one-hit and dead. How do you simulate that with a d10 weapon on someone over 2nd level?

You can't.

So, they made Iajutsu Focus and put the deuling rules in so you can kill someone better or worse then you depending on your roll. I like it. Without it, the whole dueling aspect of the samurai wouldn't work.

Interestingly, the rate at which you gain extra Iaijutsu damage dice is a lot slower than the rate at which you gain hit dice. Check the example iaijutsu duel in OA -- doing +9d6 bonus damage is hardly fatal if you have 100+ hit points. So even with the new rules, you _still_ end up having to hack each other to bits if you want to duel to the death.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Re: Re: It is for dueling

Interestingly, the rate at which you gain extra Iaijutsu damage dice is a lot slower than the rate at which you gain hit dice. Check the example iaijutsu duel in OA -- doing +9d6 bonus damage is hardly fatal if you have 100+ hit points. So even with the new rules, you _still_ end up having to hack each other to bits if you want to duel to the death.

Salutations,

Well, when the duelist who wins iniative gets two melee attacks for one standard attack and adds their charisma bonus to their iaijutsu damage- it begins to add up.

If the samurai is a bit on the dishonorable side and is hasted and has more then one katana sheathed on him- he could do even more damage.

Of course, if that first attack doesn't do it- the samurai has spent so many feats in the initial strike of combat, that a more well-rounded fighter might kick his butt.

FD

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

Its only broken with the new feat in Song&Silence that lets you draw a weapon in combat and catch your opponent flat-footed.

 

[psionotic]

Flick o the Wrist

This feat only works with light weapons, which the katana is not. Considering the requirements for the class and the greater damage the katana does in most situations, not to mention the fact that you can only use the feat once per combat/duel, I doubt many Iaijutsu Masters are going to take this feat.

I think that the IM has its niche where it is just deadly, but I wouldn't say that its overpowering.

 

[hong]

Re: Re: Re: It is for dueling

Salutations,

Well, when the duelist who wins iniative gets two melee attacks for one standard attack and adds their charisma bonus to their iaijutsu damage- it begins to add up.

Yes, that "one strike, two cuts" ability is indeed nifty.

This is an interesting question (and I have too much time on my hands) so I played around with some numbers. 1S2C is an 8th level ability for the Iaijutsu Master, so you'd need to be at least a 14th level character to get it. Let's see what bonus a 14th level IM could get for Iaijutsu Focus:

17 ranks
+5, 20 Charisma (naturally or from items)
+3, Skill Focus (using house rule that SF gives +3)
+4, sword of focus (OA weapon enchantment)
= +29 total bonus

So the absolute best this IM could get on an Iaijutsu Focus skill check is 49, if they rolled a natural 20. That translates to +8d6 damage. On average, they might get +6d6 or +7d6.

If they win init and hit both times, they do (1d10 + 6d6 + 6x5 + 1.5xStr) x 2 points of damage. That's roughly 60-70 points, doubled, or 120-140. Impressive! Considering the Iaijutsu Master will have 6d10+8d8+14xCon hit points, that could indeed be enough for an outright kill.

 

[mmadsen]

Just have to disagree here. Otherwise, everything is simply a variation on the fighter.

Everything already is just a variation on the Fighter: French knight, Welsh longbowman, Genoese crossbowman, Swiss pikeman, German landsknecht, Spartan hoplite, Danish thane -- the list goes on and on. Why on earth couldn't a Japanese samurai work? Do all those other "fighters" lose flavor by being "just Fighters"?

 

[hong]

Everything already is just a variation on the Fighter: French knight, Welsh longbowman, Genoese crossbowman, Swiss pikeman, German landsknecht, Spartan hoplite, Danish thane -- the list goes on and on. Why on earth couldn't a Japanese samurai work? Do all those other "fighters" lose flavor by being "just Fighters"?

To some extent, yes. Since this thread was about iaijutsu and iaijutsu masters, I'll continue along those lines.

A grunt hoplite is a 1st level warrior or fighter with proficiency in longspear. Similarly, a grunt knight is a 1st level warrior or fighter in plate armour and riding a horse. However, a knight of the garter is not just a "knight", and Achilles is not just a "hoplite". Such characters occupy a privileged or unique place in their society, and can't really be compared to their lowlier peers. This is (one reason) why prestige classes exist: to make a campaign more "real". Players get more involved in a campaign if they feel they their characters are more than just another multiclass combo or grab-bag of feats; and if they feel the world has more depth to it than just barebones encounter tables.

Prestige classes are a way of achieving that. They exist for the same reason that the In-Character and Story Hour boards exist on this here website: if all people were interested in was simulating historical reality, they'd be off playing a wargame, instead of indulging in gnomish industrial revolutions, blowing up the city of Freeport, or whatever.

Therefore, for a campaign that features iaijutsu prominently, it only makes sense to have a PrC that revolves around iaijutsu duels. If you don't feel that iaijutsu fits with the tone of your campaign, you're free to disallow it.

 

[zorlag]

zorlag

I have rule 0'ed 1S2C so that only the first strike is Iaijutsu focused, second is normal attack against flatfooted opponent.

Z.

 

[SpuneDagr]

Re: zorlag

I have rule 0'ed 1S2C so that only the first strike is Iaijutsu focused, second is normal attack against flatfooted opponent.

Z.

I'm pretty sure that's the way it was intended to work. Isn't sneak attack like that?