[OA] Maho-tsukai vicious cycle

[hong]

According to the class writeup in OA, maho-tsukai gain Taint every time they cast a maho spell. However, every spell on their spell list is a maho spell, by definition. Furthermore, all their spellcasting mechanics (save DC, spells/day, etc) are also based on their Taint score.

Is there anything to stop a maho-tsukai casting six million spells per day and gaining a huge boost to their Taint score as a result?

 

[wolfpunk]

The only problem for a pc maho-tsukai is that once there taint score reaches a certain level the character becomes so completetly utterly infused with the taint that they head to the shadowlands to do the bidding of the the masters there. In essence they become a npc.

 

[hong]

The only problem for a pc maho-tsukai is that once there taint score reaches a certain level the character becomes so completetly utterly infused with the taint that they head to the shadowlands to do the bidding of the the masters there. In essence they become a npc.

Well, of course they'll be an NPC. Damned if I'm having insane, demon-summoning spellcasters consumed by the Dark Side in my party. However, the question still stands -- is there any reason why an _NPC_ maho-tsukai shouldn't (theoretically) have an infinite Taint?

 

[Caliban]

Well, half of their taint score is still applied as a penalty to their Wisdom. As their Taint goes up, their spells are harder to resist, but their wisdom drops, giving them a penalty to their own Will Saves. Presumably when the penalty reduces their Wisdom to 0 they will be catatonic until the Taint is reduced.

 

[hong]

Well, half of their taint score is still applied as a penalty to their Wisdom. As their Taint goes up, their spells are harder to resist, but their wisdom drops, giving them a penalty to their own Will Saves. Presumably when the penalty reduces their Wisdom to 0 they will be catatonic until the Taint is reduced.

Ah! Forgot about that bit. Maybe I'll rejig it so that if their Wis drops to 0 they transmogrify into a demon, but it's the same thing. Thanks.

 

[DM_Matt]

Well, of course they'll be an NPC. Damned if I'm having insane, demon-summoning spellcasters consumed by the Dark Side in my party. However, the question still stands -- is there any reason why an _NPC_ maho-tsukai shouldn't (theoretically) have an infinite Taint?

They imply that Maho of both types eventually take the Atensukai template. They dont really say specificly when they get the template or how, but the book strongly implies that that is the eventual result. Once they are Atensukai, they get a permanent taint score based on their Cha score.

I guess that you can say that they gainthe template when their Wis gets to zero.

BTW, does anyone else find the Maho/Aku path to be reduculously overpowered? Not only are the pres classes on thier own rediculous, but adding the template just makes tihngs laughable.

The Maho-Tsukai gets to be like a sorc with better hd, except that they use the Maho spell list AND all the spell lists that they have had previously....All thier lists and levels convert and pool. They even get new spell levels at odd levels!

And the Maho-Bujin only requires tiant, really. No level requirement. They have the hd and bab of a barb, but (eventually) add thier taint to their attack rollls, every killing blow they strike counts as a death knell, they and get iterative atacks like a monk!

When a Maho gets the Aku template (only +1 or 2 ecl, iirc), they get 2-5 like: the special abilities of the kind of maho that they were not (yup, an L10 Bujin get to become an L10 caster suddenly), DR that advances with level up to 30/+3 (At L12!), EIGHT ARMS, a fear aura, Natural Armor, Command Tainted creatures as per a cleric turning undead of their level, and other overpowered nonsense.

Imagine a Maho-Bujin that becomes one at L1, gets 10 levels of bujin before going Aku, then one of cleric, one of wiz, one of druid, one of bard, and one of ranger, then roll them into Maho-Tsukai and take 5 more in the class. Since monster caster levels stack with actual class caster levels, this thing will be a n L20 caster with access to all spell lists and get a base of 14 attacks per round (7 iterative, 7 multiattack). And it has DR AND Fast Healing and Undead Immunities.

 

[hong]

Oh, I don't have any real problem with the majo-bujin and maho-tsukai being overpowered. I think it's obvious that these PrCs are meant more to provide adversary characters for the PCs, rather than as viable advancement options for the PCs themselves. Because of that, they can be as powerful as they like -- it just means the party has to be higher level before facing them.

 

[DM_Matt]

Oh, I don't have any real problem with the majo-bujin and maho-tsukai being overpowered. I think it's obvious that these PrCs are meant more to provide adversary characters for the PCs, rather than as viable advancement options for the PCs themselves. Because of that, they can be as powerful as they like -- it just means the party has to be higher level before facing them.

True...but from a raw-CR perspective, they are quite broken.

 

[Jackcarter]

They imply that Maho of both types eventually take the Atensukai template. They dont really say specificly when they get the template or how, but the book strongly implies that that is the eventual result. Once they are Atensukai, they get a permanent taint score based on their Cha score

I don't see how it's 'strongly' implied; plausible, yes, but strongly? I believe that only the most worthy, whatever that may mean, are given that template and then only the best out of them become akutenshi. More on this later...

BTW, does anyone else find the Maho/Aku path to be reduculously overpowered? Not only are the pres classes on thier own rediculous, but adding the template just makes tihngs laughable.

I find Aku to be overpowered, but not maho. Wiz mahos should blow through their hps very fast, due to blood magic and costly nature of wiz spells. Also, all mahos risk becoming idiots very fast if they don't ration their spell use. Since OA doesn't specify as to whether or not you stop at Wis 1 or 0, I'm assuming that it can go as low as 0.

Do you have Rokugan and Monsters of Roku? They are must for roleplaying the Tainted. If you don't have them, let me tell you few things about it. Rokugan corrects many of the gross advantages of being a maho, and in fact, makes them somewhat inferior to regular casters by bringing in the concept of Taint modifiers. Furthermore, Monsters indirectly address the problem of aku template by creating a half-way temp/powers called the Tainted Characters; basically, those with high taint scores gain powers at the expense of physical degeneration.

Both books also pump up the Tainted's powers by giving more options, but they also restrict them.

At least, I think. I use Rokugan but my campaign's in Faerun so maho/shadowlands haven't really come up in play. Anyway, so I may be wrong on some of my points as it's been a while since I've read those sections.

 

[Tzarevitch]

True...but from a raw-CR perspective, they are quite broken.

So up the CR then. Personally I think the entire CR system is broken so I leave their CR as is. But if you think they warrant a higher CR then increase it.

Tzarevitch