OA's and Reach ?

[DarkLord Of DForce]

I have/had a player with this armor in my game and I found it to be less than useless. The armor's power is Immediate (reaction/interrupt?) so is limited to once per round. The creature need only expend one extra square of movement to get adjacent to you. Unless you're using it on a charge from a creature with no reach there is no point.

Hmm, this has been argued a -lot-, and don't really want to bring it all up again, but basically CS says that because it is an immediate reaction is why it works. The creatures move action is fully resolved, standing in the square adjacent to you, when RA kicks in and pushes it back. According to them, the only way it can move up to you then is if it spends a standard action for a move action - then if it doesn't have an AP, its turn is over.

Thats the way our group interpreted it too, and we've been playing it.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Darklord: is there anyone on this site who doesn't know your DM is a powergaming grognard? It pretty much breathes through every post you make. I've never really undestood why you stick with that game--you make so many complaints about it, yet when pressed you claim the game is still fun despite a DM who's a control freak and who you're convinced cheats to stop your party from ever being effective. (That said, you're playing an avenger! So if the DM is relying on reach 2 to hit you after you Repulse, the armor's still doing its job!)

CO: Use it with other movement restrictions and it becomes fantastic -- the fact that it's not "for a daily item power, become immune to melee damage" makes it balanced, not underpowered. But wear Antipathy Gloves, make difficult terrain around you; stand near party members so an opponent pushed by the armor has to stay put or draw an OA -- there are many, many ways to use Repulsion armor effecitvely--particularly if you're an Avenger and the point is to stop you from getting surrounded, not prevent attacks entirely.

I apologize, I really have beaten this to death and back, haven't I?

Hmm, I never said my DM "cheated" as such. I (and other members of our group) have disagreed with his rulings and interpretations. As far as switching games - no option there. I live in a small town - population 4700 - and have yet to find any other ongoing games. Rumor had it some of the "youngsters" from the local community college were playing but my son and I have been unable to get in contact with anyone.

He's using reach 2 on his monsters to stop 1 square away on the inital move action towards my Avenger and then hitting. (but I understand what you are saying about RA helping me get my Oath).

AND things are actually better in our game - we hit Sigil during a campaign and our DM said this is actually a very big place so you can buy lots of the items you've been asking about. Around the table, we all looked at each other...and I said with what - our good looks?

When he looked closely at the prices and the (literally at Paragon Tier) level of gold the party had (a few hundred apiece) he finally started giving us better rewards for encounters.

Most of us actually have +3 weapons now, although the rest of our items are a mixed bag - my armor at level 14, almost lev 15 is +2, examples like that.

I promise gang, from here on I'll leave the complaints about our current (and only available) campaign at home...or more appropriately, with our group and DM.

Thanks for understanding.

PS and sorry! for hijacking this thread!

 

[mneme]

I'm glad things have gotten better, DL -- sorry I bitched at you; the refrain wears a bit.

Mind, the last resort -- start your own game -- is actually pretty good, though admittedly harder in a town with 4700 (and as a NYC native/resident, I'm hardly one to sympathize, though the City can be awfully empty at times, particularly for a geek).

Part of what's going on is that when you present the game as abusive, and are only arguing about -levels- of abuse, the right answer typically -is- "just get out of that situation already!"

That said, it sounds like some of the classically grodnardly issues (eg, your GM using a very sim approach to treasure and not quite realizing how much things scale up as you go up in half-tiers) are resolving via education, which can be useful if the GM really is "set in his ways" rather than really out to screw you.

Back to the thread (ish):

I do generally play armor of repulsion (which my Isa Sunrise -- my Deva Avenger/Battle Engineer uses) as not interrupting movements (except charges, but even there, I don't mind if the GM continues a charge; every square of (non-forced) movement has still carried the character closer to my character; if I really want to hose them I can stand in difficult terrain with activated armor of repulsion and antipathy gloves and be effectively unchargable by opponents that don't have reach with a movement of less than 7); the problem is the ruling set for readied actions (where you really -have- to be able to use an Immediate Reaction on each square of movement, or you can't do the whole "I knock prone the first enemy I see" or use readied actions to get a hit on foes using flyby/moveby attack with terrain to be untouchable. I also think the armor is more than a bit overpowered if you make it "when an opponent ends their movement adjacent to you" (although, yes, it actually makes it a -useful- item daily -- but item dailies should be on the same level as encounter utility powers, -not- on the level of daily utility powers or side effects of nearly-broken daily attacks)--though slightly underpowered [if still quite useful] in its current form, read strictly. Making it a 1/opponent's turn free action is probably about right; that would basically make it a stackable Antipathy gloves that consumed an item daily, rather than a stackable but far -weaker- Antipathy gloves.

 

[CovertOps]

Hmm, this has been argued a -lot-, and don't really want to bring it all up again, but basically CS says that because it is an immediate reaction is why it works. The creatures move action is fully resolved, standing in the square adjacent to you, when RA kicks in and pushes it back. According to them, the only way it can move up to you then is if it spends a standard action for a move action - then if it doesn't have an AP, its turn is over.

Thats the way our group interpreted it too, and we've been playing it.

Interesting...this almost makes sense (from the stand point of a CS ruling). This does make it substantially more powerful as the player can basically negate melee attacks from one creature per round without reach. Of course the creature could still charge a different enemy or attack something else it is adjacent to after the push.