D&D 5E (2014) Obelisks? [spoilers YES]

[Echohawk]

I'm pretty sure he first appeared in the novel Prince of Lies, which also came out in 1993. I think that was published before the boxed set.

Prince of Lies was an August release, one month after the boxed set in July.

 

[Demetrios1453]

Prince of Lies was an August release, one month after the boxed set in July.

I guess I got the novel before the set. But obviously the two were still coordinated, since that novel wasn't written in a month!

 

[Echohawk]

I guess I got the novel before the set. But obviously the two were still coordinated, since that novel wasn't written in a month!

Yeah, I agree. That novel was almost certainly written first and then the two paragraphs on Jergal added to the boxed set because of the novel.

 

[Parmandur]

To be fair, given the way the Realms was developed, Jergal could have been part of early Greenwood notes that just weren't considered relevant enough by TSR editorial to publish until 1993.

But the important points:

1. Jergal appears to be a Spellweaver who ascended to godhood: the Spellweavwrs were militant atheists who saw the gods as evil wizards running a Ponzi scheme (in the FR, somewhat fair take), so a Spellweaver achieving Godhood is...curious.

2. Jergal was a God worshipped centrally in Nethril before it fell. The Netherese built the Obelisks using Spellweaber magic: where or from whom did they learn that?

3. Jergal is a puppetmaster God of Death with an qxe to grind against Liches seeking godhead in particular. Like Vecna.

3 connections, to the 3 things we know about this upcoming story.

 

[RealAlHazred]

Huh, I always thought Jergal was Ed back-handedly putting Sheelba/Ningauble into the Forgotten Realms. TIL.

I went through the hardcover adventures looking for references to obelisks.

• Hoard of the Dragon Queen -- Episode 7, "Hunting Lodge," takes place in an area where there are a lot of standing stones. Several are noted as part of gate networks. Not a lot of detail is given to them.
• The Rise of Tiamat -- I'm not remembering any from it, but my memory of this one is spotty.
• Princes of the Apocalypse -- There are three obelisks in the Temple of Howling Hatred are specifically noted as being "ancient" (room A16). As referred to earlier, there's an obelisk mentioned in the Temple of Black Earth (room B23), but my read on that one is it is much more modern, constructed by the Black Earth Cultists. On the other hand, the Black Earth monolith "contains" an unexpected visitor, which is absolutely fantastic foreshadowing for monoliths in later books...
• Out of the Abyss -- The Whorlstone Caverns have a faction of derro called the Gray Ghosts who study a mysterious monolith (room 14). There is a lot more detail on the obelisk given here: it's made of black metal, is alien in origin, and it leaks magic.
• Curse of Strahd -- Near the Old Bonegrinder and in the Ruins of Berez are ancient menhirs. Of the latter, the book says: "The ring of menhirs is one of the oldest structures in the Balinok Mountains -- older than the Amber Temple, and much older than Castle Ravenloft and the various Barovian settlements scattered throughout the valley. The menhirs were raised by the same ancient folk who carved the megaliths near Old Bonegrinder." The individual obelisks don't have magic powers, but the ring does -- druids get enhanced powers of Wild Shifting inside.
• Tales from the Yawning Portal -- None that I can remember.
• Storm King's Thunder -- The village of Nightstone, the starting location, gets its name from an ancient monolith in the center of the town. "The obsidian megalith had strange glyphscarved into it and radiated magic under the scrutiny of detect magic spells, but its properties and purpose couldn't be ascertained." Then the cloud giants stole it, because you can't have s*** in the Forgotten Realms. This whole subplot is mostly dropped in the rest of the adventure, which made it tricky when I ran because it was the first thing my players asked about whenever they met any giants.
• Tomb of Annihilation -- Just outside the Tomb is a black obelisk (it is foreshadowed earlier in the module in a vision the NPC Zitembe can relate). The obelisk radiates abjuration magic and contains an unexpected visitor. I remember a reference that Acererak didn't make the monolith, but found it somewhere else and brought it to the Tomb, but I don't remember where I read that.
• Waterdeep: Dragon Heist -- None that I can remember.
• Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage -- In the Shadowdusk Hold is a black obelisk. The obelisk radiates abjuration magic and contains an unexpected visitor. The module notes the Shadowdusks found the obelisk on another level of Undermountain and brought it to their Hold.
• Ghosts of Saltmarsh -- These obelisks don't show up in this adventure. However, there are a couple of standing stones in the water outside Saltmarsh, that do contain an unexpected visitor -- the spirit of a siren which is trapped inside after being sacrificed to provide the people of Saltmarsh with good fishing. At the time I ran the module, I thought this was a reference to the Greek myth, but there's a lot of monoliths containing visitors in these...
• Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus -- There's an obelisk surrounded by smaller standing stones in one encounter. but it's not apparently related to these obelisks, instead being set up by Mephistopheles.
• Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden -- In the Spire of Iriolarthas, there's a cracked obelisk. A sidebar, "The Secret of the Obelisks," it explicitly ties this one to the others and gives their origin with the Weavers, as noted above.
• Candlekeep Mysteries -- None that I can remember.
• The Wild Beyond the Witchlight -- Standing stones show up in the module, but they radiate conjuration magic and operate as a gate to the Feywild. No relation to these obelisks under discussion.
• Critical Role: Call of the Netherdeep -- Never ran this one.
• Journeys through the Radiant Citadel -- None that I can remember.
• Dragonlance: Shadow of the Dragon Queen -- Haven't run this one either.
• Keys From the Golden Vault -- Haven't run it.
• Phandelver and Below: The Shattered Obelisk -- I don't own this one, but from the title, I'm suspecting there's an obelisk in it somewhere.

My impression was that they were building up to something with them, but they didn't really push the Obelisk angle enough for it to register when the payoff happened in Rime of the Frostmaiden, which I didn't run to completion. I doubt we'll see too many of them in future hardcovers.

 

[Parmandur]

Huh, I always thought Jergal was Ed back-handedly putting Sheelba/Ningauble into the Forgotten Realms. TIL.

Oh, that is for sure what ia going on there, too.

My impression was that they were building up to something with them, but they didn't really push the Obelisk angle enough for it to register when the payoff happened in Rime of the Frostmaiden, which I didn't run to completion. I doubt we'll see too many of them in future hardcovers.

We know ow from the info in Icewind Dale and Shattered Obelisk that the payoff is coming next year, in the Vecna anniversary celebration campaign: apparently we will see a revisit to a bunch of prior 5E Adventures, such as what you list.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

1. Jergal appears to be a Spellweaver who ascended to godhood: the Spellweavwrs were militant atheists who saw the gods as evil wizards running a Ponzi scheme (in the FR, somewhat fair take), so a Spellweaver achieving Godhood is...curious.

Vecna learned the Spellweavers' secrets, then erased them from existence. Jergal somehow survived, and takes on the mantle of godhood reluctantly, to oppose Vecna.

2. Jergal was a God worshipped centrally in Nethril before it fell. The Netherese built the Obelisks using Spellweaber magic: where or from whom did they learn that?

Jergal becomes a god in Nethril in order to teach them to make what is needed to defeat Vecna. Vecna engineers the fall of Netheril by manipulating Karsus and/or the Phaerimm. Jergal splits most of his divine power between three gullible mortals in order to keep it out of Vecna's hands. Said mortals mess things up bigtime, forcing Jergal to step back in. Vecna moves his plot forwards.

OR

1. Jergal appears to be a Spellweaver who ascended to godhood: the Spellweavwrs were militant atheists who saw the gods as evil wizards running a Ponzi scheme (in the FR, somewhat fair take), so a Spellweaver achieving Godhood is...curious.

A particularly ambitious spellweaver deletes the others from existence and makes themselves a god.

2. Jergal was a God worshipped centrally in Nethril before it fell. The Netherese built the Obelisks using Spellweaber magic: where or from whom did they learn that?

As the god Jergal, the spellweaver teaches the Nethil to make the obelisks he needs for his grand design for Unlimited Powah. He then leaves his power in the hands of three mortals to keep his seat warm and leaves the Forgotten Realms for other planes of existence. Using the guise of Vecna, the last spellweaver puts his plan in motion on other worlds, such as Oerth and Exandria.


VECNA'S PLAN

The souls of the dead are supposed to go to their gods on the outer planes when they die. This empowers those gods (see BG3 epilogue, Ponzi scheme). The god of death is responsible for seeing those souls get there. If Vecna can become god of death everywhere, all at once, he can divert those souls, and hence the power of all the gods, to himself.

 

[Parmandur]

Vecna learned the Spellweavers' secrets, then erased them from existence. Jergal somehow survived, and takes on the mantle of godhood reluctantly, to oppose Vecna.

Jergal becomes a god in Nethril in order to teach them to make what is needed to defeat Vecna. Vecna engineers the fall of Netheril by manipulating Karsus and/or the Phaerimm. Jergal splits most of his divine power between three gullible mortals in order to keep it out of Vecna's hands. Said mortals mess things up bigtime, forcing Jergal to step back in. Vecna moves his plot forwards.

OR


A particularly ambitious spellweaver deletes the others from existence and makes themselves a god.

As the god Jergal, the spellweaver teaches the Nethil to make the obelisks he needs for his grand design for Unlimited Powah. He then leaves his power in the hands of three mortals to keep his seat warm and leaves the Forgotten Realms for other planes of existence. Using the guise of Vecna, the last spellweaver puts his plan in motion on other worlds, such as Oerth and Exandria.


VECNA'S PLAN

The souls of the dead are supposed to go to their gods on the outer planes when they die. This empowers those gods (see BG3 epilogue, Ponzi scheme). The god of death is responsible for seeing those souls get there. If Vecna can become god of death everywhere, all at once, he can divert those souls, and hence the power of all the gods, to himself.

Yes, these are strong possibilities. Some epic hijinks seem to be afoot.

 

[James Gasik]

Something about Jergal always bothered me. His personality seems completely unsuited for having been a God of Strife and Murder. Like ok, maybe he was a dispassionate killer, like being the god of hitmen, but you'd expect a God of Strife to be a bit more "LOL EVULZ".

You could say, perhaps, that Jergal represented the inevitable downfall of any society, I guess, but it still feels a little odd to me. In fact, "Inevitability" sounds like a much better Domain for him.

 

[Demetrios1453]

Something about Jergal always bothered me. His personality seems completely unsuited for having been a God of Strife and Murder. Like ok, maybe he was a dispassionate killer, like being the god of hitmen, but you'd expect a God of Strife to be a bit more "LOL EVULZ".

You could say, perhaps, that Jergal represented the inevitable downfall of any society, I guess, but it still feels a little odd to me. In fact, "Inevitability" sounds like a much better Domain for him.

Basically, he just got tired of all that, and that is why he gave up his godhood without making any huge fuss. And we've only seen him in his post-(major) godhood state, where having given up strife and murder, he logically became dull and dispassionate. Who knows how crazy he was back in the days of Netheril?

Or... maybe that's what we're supposed to believe...