Occidental Adventures

[ProfessorPain]

First let me say, I am glad that the oriental adventure books lacked historical accuracy and realism, since I wanted Wuxia and stereotype in my asian adventures.

Second, more interesting to me than the cobbled setting you would get (as someone pointed out, Ancient Rome, Medieval England, etc all rolled into one), is the perspective you would get on the Western Character. It seems to me that the glue which binds the oriental setting, is the western view of asians as wise, honorable and determined. To me this is what makes the asian setting so fun. So how would Asian RPG designers depict the western character? I do know some people from asia, which doesn't make me an expert or anything, but they have told me that the asian stereotype of westerners is they are highly emotive, that they are all
christian, and they are all big.

 

[Jack7]

Second, more interesting to me than the cobbled setting you would get (as someone pointed out, Ancient Rome, Medieval England, etc all rolled into one), is the perspective you would get on the Western Character.

PP, I learned Raja Yoga from a master who was originally from Thailand but went to India to study. He came to the US and took me as his only student, for about 6 years. Other than him, I've got some Indian friends, Korean friends, and some Chinese friends, and a couple of buddies of mine married Japanese and Korean girls. One still lives in Japan but to tell you the truth, in my opinion, Japan, Hong Kong, and South Korea are the most Western of all Oriental societies. Maybe Taiwan too.

I'd say from my experience that you bring up a good point, though I have some idea of what some Oriental would say about Westerners in general, and about modern Western culture in particular (many admire it in most respects, are disgusted with it in others, as am I to a degree), it would be hard for me to say how they would interpret Western culture and character historically speaking. I've discussed it from time to time and the ones I know really admire Knighthood, Chivalry, and Christianity as both a cultural and belief system, others are confused by Western religion. I've also seen a big interest in Western science and medicine and technology.

But it would be hard for me to say how the Western character might be interpreted "collectively."

I don't think it would be considered honorable in the same sense as Asian honor, though Knights and Paladins would be considered honorable. I think it would more be considered progressive and "intellectual" (the Wizard), monotheistic (the Cleric, though they would probably call a cleric a Priest), corrupt in a certain sense of the word (Thieves) and I'm not really sure how things like Bards and Druids (possibly Shinto-like?) would be interpreted. It would be interesting to see how they interpreted "barbarian," the "church," "kings and kingdoms," and "race" and other things like that.

 

[ProfessorPain]

PP, I learned Raja Yoga from a master who was originally from Thailand but went to India to study. He came to the US and took me as his only student, for about 6 years. Other than him, I've got some Indian friends, Korean friends, and some Chinese friends, and a couple of buddies of mine married Japanese and Korean girls. One still lives in Japan but to tell you the truth, in my opinion, Japan, Hong Kong, and South Korea are the most Western of all Oriental societies. Maybe Taiwan too.

I'd say from my experience that you bring up a good point, though I have some idea of what some Oriental would say about Westerners in general, and about modern Western culture in particular (many admire it in most respects, are disgusted with it in others, as am I to a degree), it would be hard for me to say how they would interpret Western culture and character historically speaking. I've discussed it from time to time and the ones I know really admire Knighthood, Chivalry, and Christianity as both a cultural and belief system, others are confused by Western religion. I've also seen a big interest in Western science and medicine and technology.

But it would be hard for me to say how the Western character might be interpreted "collectively."

I don't think it would be considered honorable in the same sense as Asian honor, though Knights and Paladins would be considered honorable. I think it would more be considered progressive and "intellectual" (the Wizard), monotheistic (the Cleric, though they would probably call a cleric a Priest), corrupt in a certain sense of the word (Thieves) and I'm not really sure how things like Bards and Druids (possibly Shinto-like?) would be interpreted. It would be interesting to see how they interpreted "barbarian," the "church," "kings and kingdoms," and "race" and other things like that.

You do raise a good point. It would depend on the Asian culture doing the interpretation. I am most familiar with Thai and Cambodian Culture. I am also married to a Thai Buddhist, one thing that jumps out at me, now that I am thinking about it, is this. Often her perspective, and the perspective of her Thai friends, seems built on the assumption of having many lives, and on the Buddhist belief that the goal is to become free of attachments. From her view, westerners have an intense desire to make their mark now. To make the most of this life. She also views westerners as extremely independent. There isn't the same level of obedience to parental figures here that you have in Thailand. Here we leave the home at 18 and pretty much live on our own after college, there it is common for kids to stay with their parents until their late twenties, early thirties, for an unwed woman, she could live with her parents for her whole life. We can pretty much do what we want with our lives, there your really tied down to family. So I think this extreme independence, and the live life to the fullest thing, would feature pretty strongly.

 

[The Green Adam]

I was definitely thinking Record of the Lodoss War, Slayers, Weathering Continent, Ryu Knight and a host of other Eastern-Western Medieval Fantsy Anime.

Strangely this is what my view of D&D is anyhow.

AD

 

[Jack7]

Often her perspective, and the perspective of her Thai friends, seems built on the assumption of having many lives, and on the Buddhist belief that the goal is to become free of attachments. From her view, westerners have an intense desire to make their mark now. To make the most of this life. She also views westerners as extremely independent. There isn't the same level of obedience to parental figures here that you have in Thailand. Here we leave the home at 18 and pretty much live on our own after college, there it is common for kids to stay with their parents until their late twenties, early thirties, for an unwed woman, she could live with her parents for her whole life. We can pretty much do what we want with our lives, there your really tied down to family. So I think this extreme independence, and the live life to the fullest thing, would feature pretty strongly.

Well, you raise some really good points too PP, about Buddhism and reincarnation and Eastern religion and Western religion and independence. In a way Eastern religions are much more open and flexible, but also kind of meandering (as the Greeks would say, meaning wandering about in different directions), Western religions tend to be much more goal driven, time-conscious, and in secular life as well, culture is much more objective oriented and time conscious. And individualistic.

I'm also interested in the overlap of both cultures and religions as they intermingle. For instance my old Yoga master eventually became a devout Christian, perhaps partially through my influence (I was studying to be a Priest at that time) though I think he was always inclined in that direction, from early on. According to his stories. He though always remained a Yogin as well.

I've been a Christian since a little kid, but since studying Yoga I adopted many of the meditation, prayer, and psychological practices into my Christianity. But not in the same way that he did the reverse. It's hard to describe what I mean exactly and I think it reflects a different outlook on things like religion, culture, society, and background. I adopted practices from Yoga into my Christianity, he adopted Christianity as his Yoga. If that makes any sense. So I suspect religion would be approached differently, even when talking about the same things. Culture likewise.

Things like that have always fascinated me though.

Anyways nice yakkign at ya again, but I gotta hit the sack early tonight.
I gotta count at church tomorrow morning.

See ya.

 

[ProfessorPain]

Well, you raise some really good points too PP, about Buddhism and reincarnation and Eastern religion and Western religion and independence. In a way Eastern religions are much more open and flexible, but also kind of meandering (as the Greeks would say, meaning wandering about in different directions), Western religions tend to be much more goal driven, time-conscious, and in secular life as well, culture is much more objective oriented and time conscious. And individualistic.

I'm also interested in the overlap of both cultures and religions as they intermingle. For instance my old Yoga master eventually became a devout Christian, perhaps partially through my influence (I was studying to be a Priest at that time) though I think he was always inclined in that direction, from early on. According to his stories. He though always remained a Yogin as well.

I've been a Christian since a little kid, but since studying Yoga I adopted many of the meditation, prayer, and psychological practices into my Christianity. But not in the same way that he did the reverse. It's hard to describe what I mean exactly and I think it reflects a different outlook on things like religion, culture, society, and background. I adopted practices from Yoga into my Christianity, he adopted Christianity as his Yoga. If that makes any sense. So I suspect religion would be approached differently, even when talking about the same things. Culture likewise.

Things like that have always fascinated me though.

Anyways nice yakkign at ya again, but I gotta hit the sack early tonight.
I gotta count at church tomorrow morning.

See ya.

Christianity has a long history of mysticism (as does Islam and Judaism) and I think meditation, at least to me, is easiest to understand from a Christian perspective through this lens. I know of many Catholics and Episcopals who have incorporated meditation into their faith (often at the urging of their priests), and I don't see anything about it that would be contrary to the faith. I know much less about Yoga, but it seems like it could be viewed in this way as well.

 

[ProfessorPain]

I was definitely thinking Record of the Lodoss War, Slayers, Weathering Continent, Ryu Knight and a host of other Eastern-Western Medieval Fantsy Anime.

Strangely this is what my view of D&D is anyhow.

AD

Lodoss War and Slayers really jump out at me as well. Crystania also.

 

[Woas]

Maybe back in the 19th century American occidental was Westerns. But now-a-days, American occidental is anime and the sort, or in other words, European oriental. Full circle.

Of course Occidental is a European word - real Occidental fiction is set in America.

European Occidentalism includes a lot of British comic strips set in a very British version of America or future America, such as Preacher or more famously Judge Dredd. It took marying an American for me to realise just how parochial these were.

America has its own Occidentalism - The Western.

 

[ProfessorPain]

I thought Occidental just meant western culture.

 

[Celebrim]

There isn't the same level of obedience to parental figures here that you have in Thailand. Here we leave the home at 18 and pretty much live on our own after college, there it is common for kids to stay with their parents until their late twenties, early thirties, for an unwed woman, she could live with her parents for her whole life. We can pretty much do what we want with our lives, there your really tied down to family. So I think this extreme independence, and the live life to the fullest thing, would feature pretty strongly.

Except that you don't have to go back much more than a century (and in some cases - rural France, the rural South, Latin America, etc - not even that) for the cultural distinction you mention here to be pretty much unnoticable. You aren't picking up on a cultural distinction that is Western vs. Eastern, as much as it is post-industrial vs. pre-industrial. Nothing about the pre-industrial West anywhere in the West would have been different than what you describe. In fact, in most societies prior to the 20th century, it would be unusual for children to not live either in their Parents house or as neighbors on the same property or for an unwed woman to live anywhere but with her parents.