OD&D [OD&D] Questions on BECMI/RC mass battle rules

[Blacky the Blackball]

In the Battle Results table, there is this property that the distance of a loser's retreat is always bigger than the distance of a winner's advancement. What does it mean?

To be honest, I'm not sure what the intent is there. I put it in Dark Dungeons because it was in the RC, but I very rarely use it. When I've done battles the winners haven't normally wanted to chase the losers away from the battlefield.

In the book, I say that if the winner chooses not to push the loser back they can't inflict the casualties they otherwise would, but if the winners don't want to advance and the losers don't want to retreat I'd be happy to say that the casualties stand.

If the winner gets "advance X" and the loser "retreat Y", it is always Y > X (in miles).

So the winner army can choose to advance any miles from minimum 0 to maximum X?

But then do you think the loser army can choose to advance from minimum the amount dictated by the winner's advancement to maximum Y?

That sounds fair to me. The winner gets to push the loser up to X without the loser getting a choice in it; but the loser can choose to only go as far as they're pushed if they want to keep fighting or they have the choice of going as far as Y if they don't want the engagement to continue.

Also, I was thinking that the whole purpose of these was to make it a part of tactical play to use movements to force the opposing army into unfavorable terrain (e.g. the Elves pushing the Orcs into the woods, where the elven army would have a bonus). But if this is so, then doesn't ending the day after the first round causes the positions on land to "reset" since they can reposition? Or should you force the armies to stay there, wherever they ended up at the end of the day?

I think a good rule of thumb is that if both sides finish in the same place they have to fight again (even if one of them chooses the "Withdraw" tactic). If they don't finish in the same place - and the loser always has the option of losing ground - then the loser can try to manoeuvre to regain some of that ground as you say (or to simply move away from or around the army that beat them).

But don't forget that in cases where the losing army is forced into a significant retreat then the army will always also have been severely fatigued and the advancing army who beat them won't have been; so you could simply rule that the advancing army has the choice of re-engaging them in their new position before they have chance to recover and move again.

 

[kingius]

"In the Battle Results table, there is this property that the distance of a loser's retreat is always bigger than the distance of a winner's advancement. What does it mean?

To be honest, I'm not sure what the intent is there. I put it in Dark Dungeons because it was in the RC, but I very rarely use it. When I've done battles the winners haven't normally wanted to chase the losers away from the battlefield."

I think that this simulates that when an army is routing, it is a disorganised rabble moving as fast as it can /away/ from its enemy. The victorious army, however, has problems maintaining formation as some of its soldiers give chase; however at some point the general rallies them back in to the formation and starts a more ordered march towards the general direction of the fleeing enemy. Injured enemies are slain en route. Bodies may be looted by soldiers. The danger is over so the marching speed of the victors is lower than the losers, who are fleeing as fast as they can.

About the timescale of battles: From my own reading, specifically into the Norman invasion of England, battles are fought in one day and are decisive. Once a force begins to rout the whole battle may be lost if it cannot be recovered quickly. In about 4-6 hours of fighting, many thousands of soldiers are slain, rivers run red with blood and bodies mount up to become obstacles that actually aid the defenders. Grim stuff.

The Rules Cyclopedia mass combat rules may be designed to emulate Lord of the Rings more than history (very, vey big battles). Or maybe they are designed to simulate such things as the 300 holding out for many days. They're definitely not trying to simulate a ten year siege like the Greeks attacking Troy.