OD&D = social mobility, 4e does not

[doctorhook]

I don't think it's coherent enough to spark either.

OP, what exactly are you trying to get to?

You may well be correct.

 

[Bumbles]

Chalk me up as another person who can't comprehend whatever message is being expressed in the original post.

 

[Remathilis]

What?

Your example doesn't having any bearing on edition; powerful wizards controlling things (and meddling in the affairs of adventurers) is as old a dirt, and fully functional in OD&D. Similarly, 4e Pcs are just as capable of creating a new spell/ritual, staking out a keep and calling it home, or discovering the lost tomb of Nosugref like anyone else.

Perhaps you'd like to explain your point a little more clearly?

 

[Henry]

And if that spell came at the cost of thousands of lives in forced labor, the monolith dominated the country side, and turned out to be a minor first level spell? What then. But 4e DM's would never do that. They would introduce some super spell off the level charts at a new level of power. The idea that some geeky repressed person trapped under the status quo is the source of the most powerful spell is gone. Players will assume the person is secretly receiving instructions or that they dug it up somewhere.

In fact what is the best promotion that a 4e party can offer any NPC. That's right. Membership in the group. Nothing more. No longer are the phrases like "king maker", "discoverer of", and "inventor" heard. But I bet you they can talk for days on end about how things are fine they way they are, and one should learn to appreciate what they have, and even that these thoughts are dangerous and I should be stopped.

I'm afraid I just don't see it. First, If there's one pretty big similarity in OD&D and 4E, it's the shared absolute NECESSITY that both games engender about needing to be part of a cohesive unit. If some wizard goes off adventuring by himself, or some fighter goes off into a dungeon without the thief to handle traps and info gathering, they're both dead of acute stupidity. Gary's main tenet is that no PC is an island, and while you can advance quite far with a bit of luck and craftiness, most adventurers stand to die if they forge their own path. Even the great Mordenkainen got his butt turned to stone when he went off adventuring and had to get his apprentice and a cleric to come back and pull his fat from the fire.

Second, I see plenty of freedom between the lines of those 4E rule books to craft baronies, duchies, and Mage-holds, build your own destinies, and become movers, shakers, and leaders of men. But just like in OD&D, it's not set down in the rules, it's more between you and the DM. Now, Basic/Expert/Companion/Master D&D had more rules on that aspect, but to me, codifying them made them more limiting than less, and practically requiring it of adventurers after a point was kind of unfair.

So, as I said, I see more similarities in those points than any difference.

 

[jaerdaph]

OD&D = social mobility, 4e does not


If someone with a modern education went far into the past they could contend with any sorcerer on the basis of knowledge and theory. Social mobility used to be a big part of Americas' self image compared to ...

My thoughts are best expressed by paraphrasing a line from Jerry Maguire:

You had lost me at 'HELLO'.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Remember, fire only feeds them here, try acid.

 

[Henry]

You had lost me at 'HELLO'.

Yes, but, sometimes, it's all about the 'O'.







[sblock](overstock.com reference)[/sblock]

 

[El Mahdi]

What a depressing commentary.

Everyone has a system that best "fits" them, for whatever reasons. Myself included. But I'll be the first one to admit, no system is inherently better or worse when it comes to creativity and imagination. It seems that everything described in the OP is less about mechanics than it is about limitation of imagination.

I would suggest that if you're a player in a game that inspired this post, leave post haste. If you are posting from the standpoint of a DM, then I would ask; "Why would you want to purposely limit yourself from resources of inspiration and imagination just because of non-preferred mechanics?"

4E isn't my preferred system either, but then again neither is OD&D. But I've found inspiration for my games (with my preferred system) in both of those systems and many others. Even some systems not originally developed for running D&D style fantasy. No system is perfect. That includes every edition of D&D.

Most definitely play/DM in the system that best fits your play style. But plot, story, campaign world and characterisation are all completely seperate from mechanics. Mechanical systems (which is all that 4E and every other edition is) are nothing but tools to adjudicate action. Nothing more. The rest is all up to you, regardless of system.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

"Time for more CHICKEN THE SEA!'
Want some mayo with that!

 

[El Mahdi]

Yes, but, sometimes, it's all about the 'O'.

Uh-Oh!