Odd situation - Hydra

[Greenfield]

We had an odd situation in our game the other day.

10th/11th level party is attacked by a Hydra. The Hydra is attacking from within a swampy pool, so its body is under water but it's heads are above.

Our Wizard hits it with a Fireball.

Now, the Hydra is an odd critter. You can target the heads, and each one has separate hit points (total hit points / number of heads).

The Fireball can't hit the body. If we treat each of the heads like a single target, we KO the monster in a one-punch. But the situation has restricted us to fighting only the heads.

I know how we handled it, but what would you do? (Note, the MM says that a Fireball can cauterize several severed stumps at once, so we know the rules allow it to multi-target.)

 

[Rampant]

I'd have treated the hydra as a single creature for the purpose of the fireball. You have to specifically target the heads and the fireball doesn't allow for targeting, it hits everyone in the area, and since big creatures don't take multiple instances of fireball damage for having more surface area in the area affected my thinking is that this is the same kind of thing. That said the total hp would then be lower and that might bump off a few heads or at least making them easier to finish off. Or is the Hp total of the heads dependent on the whole creature's maximum rather than current total?

 

[kitcik]

I agree with [MENTION=52859]Rampant[/MENTION]

I would deduct the fireball damage from total HP on a "one head at a time" basis (rather than pro rata across the heads).

 

[kitcik]

First "quick reply" double post I've had - ENWorld on fire today!

 

[Greenfield]

That's pretty much what we did.

Still, the question came up: Suppose you had a 12 headed Hydra, and had severed 10 of the heads. You need 5 points of fire or acid damage, per neck, to cauterize each one, and prevent the heads from regrowing. By the book, a single area affect attack of fire or acid could seal off all 10 of those necks.

So, would you divide the Fireball damage by the number of necks you needed to seal? Would you apply the full fireball damage, undivided?

If you don't divide it, then how do you handle the damage transfer from the severed stumps to the body? You see where this is going?

If you don't divide it, a minimum damage fireball (5 d6, all ones) would do 50 points of damage all told (5 points x 10 stumps). If you transfer half damage to the body (as the rules say you do when you sever a head), your 5 point attack did 25 points. So why wouldn't you count the damage to the remaining heads? And why would this only work when the heads are severed? Or does it work that way at all?

It's kind of like the old joke about pants: The peculiar noun, singular at the top, plural at the bottom, and only exists in pairs, even if there's only one.

 

[frankthedm]

We had an odd situation in our game the other day.

10th/11th level party is attacked by a Hydra. The Hydra is attacking from within a swampy pool, so its body is under water but it's heads are above.

Our Wizard hits it with a Fireball.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I know how we handled it, but what would you do? (Note, the MM says that a Fireball can cauterize several severed stumps at once, so we know the rules allow it to multi-target.)

I'd run it as the hydra has Improved Cover*. If it takes damage, the damage gets applied to the body's HP total. Any stump would get seared closed if the hydra takes fireball damage.

*Varying Degrees of Cover
In some cases, cover may provide a greater bonus to AC and Reflex saves. In such situations the normal cover bonuses to AC and Reflex saves can be doubled (to +8 and +4, respectively). A creature with this improved cover effectively gains improved evasion against any attack to which the Reflex save bonus applies

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

You can't have it both ways.

You want to treat all of the hydra's "parts" as one creature, yet were unwilling to let fire damage to its heads translate into damage to the body. That's hypocritical.

Either the heads are all separate entities and each eat the damage, or it's all one creature and the damage goes straight to its "tied pool" of hp -- the body.

What the hell is the point of using a higher level area blast like fireball over a lower level single target blast like scorching ray (which also does more damage...) if the area affect only downs one head?

My answer: Hydra rules are wonky. Either the fireball sears each head, or the damage is translated once to the body. Pick. I'd have all the heads asplode. Fireball seems like the perfect spell to use against a hydra, good on the PC for having it prepared/known.

EDIT: Nevermind, RAW is very clear.

"Any attack that is not (or cannot be) an attempt to sunder a head affects the body."

Even if you're punching a hydra in one of its faces, it's body damage. The neck/head thing only applies when sundering, otherwise all damage goes to the body. With one exception:

"Fire or acid damage from an area effect may burn multiple stumps in addition to dealing damage to the hydra’s body."

If you've actually hacked some heads off, area fire/acid damage DOES hit each stump separately AND the body. So yeah, houseruling an area spell that "can't hurt the body" to be hitting only one head makes no sense and is grossly deviating from RAW.

 

[frankthedm]

EDIT: Nevermind, RAW is very clear.

"Any attack that is not (or cannot be) an attempt to sunder a head affects the body."

Even if you're punching a hydra in one of its faces, it's body damage. The neck/head thing only applies when sundering, otherwise all damage goes to the body. With one exception:

"Fire or acid damage from an area effect may burn multiple stumps in addition to dealing damage to the hydra’s body."

If you've actually hacked some heads off, area fire/acid damage DOES hit each stump separately AND the body. So yeah, houseruling an area spell that "can't hurt the body" to be hitting only one head makes no sense and is grossly deviating from RAW.

It sounds like the OP might have been working off of the rules for 3.0 hydras, which were a little bit weirder and had stipulations like... "Spells such as disintegrate, finger of death, and slay living kill a Lernaean hydra outright if they succeed. If the spell deals damage on a successful save, that damage is directed against one of the hydra’s heads."