"Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

This one is especially interesting, because in AD&D all thief abilities progress uniformly, whereas in 2nd ed D&D the player can choose (within certain parameters) how to allocate points to abilities. Does this mean that the two rulesets are describing different fictional worlds? To me, that would be a strange conclusion to draw!
In my view of in-game cosmology and world interactions, that's exactly how I see it! :)

Things work slightly differently on different worlds within the same universe; which is how and why, for example, I can have my previous game worlds, my current game-world, and various game-worlds of other DMs all be in the same universe (point an astronomical telescope in the right direction and you can see each one's star) and yet have the rules and mechanics work a bit differently on each.

Some worlds have more magic, some less, and some (like the one we're sitting on right now) none at all.
 
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Kings and dukes exist in many D&D settings, but the PC creation rules don't permit PCs to be these things, with castles and retainers and vast quantities of money.
As written, perhaps not. That's what hacking is for. :)

I have there being a very small but not zero chance that you can in fact roll up high noble or even reigning monarch as your pre-adventuring profession, and such a character indeed might have more resources behind it than would the average Joe.

It's happened a couple of times in the 40 years I've been at this; and if nothing else it forces some more detailed worldbuilding of whatever realm/area/region/nation the character rules (or ruled) over.
 

@Manbearcat : Outstanding! And in emphasizing the role of process, you’ve tapped into something much deeper than many players realize. Some of us have seen it before, in the role of outlining in the genre fiction fields that’ve always provided fodder for gaming. Make yourself comfortable, this may take a bit.

It used to be that fans in general saw very little of the creative processes leading to work they enjoyed. There’d be a few example pages of script in How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way and in The Great Marvel Tryout Book, but many of us were already just kind of assuming that Stan Lee would give us a version tuned for his purposes as he always did. Later we’d see a few pages of 1980s Alan Moore script and never realize how utterly unusual they were in multiple ways.

We learned (most of us) about outlining prose in school, and about doing multiple drafts with specific revision tasks associated with each. Then we might read about an f/sf pro denouncing multiple drafts except at editorial command and think something to the effect of “whilikers, I wish I could make my first drafts so great”. We’d see the occasional snippet like Gene Wolfe on the four-volume Book of the New Sun: “What I actually did was to wait until I had all four in second draft before doing the final drafts of the first and submitting it. I did not do that for reasons of admirable idealism; I did it because I wanted to be able to adjust the plot of the first volume in order to make the last end as I thought it should. When the first volume sold I began the third draft of the second.” And then later we learned about Joe Michael Straczynkski’s planning for Babylon 5.

So in our fannish enthusiasm to learn how the good stuff happens, we picked up partly unrelated fragments of info a led assembled an edifice of how we imagined good process was and how dependent good outcomes were on good process.

The problem is of course that a lot of good work came about through entirely different means, and rigorous to our kind of model has led (like every rigorous approach, and every messy casual one) to far more bad work than good.

In time, the world of fan magazines and amateur press associations spread online via ARPANET mailing lists, BBS networks like FidoNet, online services like America Online and GEnie, Usenet, and so on to our glorious present. A lot more of us got to see creators at work and to interact with them. And it turned out….

We were way off base about process.

Most work is made in a far more haphazard way. Some apparently great work happens without any master plan at all! And where master plans are made, they’re often heavily, repeatedly revised along the way. The number of series in any medium where creators conceive a plan and execute it substantially as is over months or years is somewhere close to zero.

Reactions to this varied. You can still find people who argue that they genuinely couldn’t enjoy a work knowing it had been created on the fly, and the level of disappointment many of them show strongly suggests a lot of them aren’t just trying to stir up trouble.

For others of it was the beginning (or a continuation) of a reappraisal. If we would otherwise appreciate the real thing in all this, the made, published, and distributed thing, without knowing how it had happened, how and why could we let more knowledge diminish our satisfaction? If our standard kept doing that to us, maybe the flaw was in our standard? Maybe we needed to change it to accommodate reality rather than keep hewing to a model that never had been in tune with the creative process of really talented creators?

Okay, enough of the horribly rigged questions. I did make that shift and have been happier ever since. What I need is satisfying results, and that’s all that I need. Any process that helps GMs have mutually rewarding resources at hand is good for me. I don’t think it should matter to players what went on beforehand, to the degree that I’d say that’s not knowledge they’re entitled to and shouldn’t expect to know.
 

it of course is perfectly possible for character to become a king. Point of course never was that every NPC in the setting must be representable by a starting character.
But some NPCs in the setting are kings (barons, dukes, princes, etc) with d6 (or whatever) hit points; whereas in most approaches to D&D that I'm familiar with, a PC has to be somewhere above 1st level to become a king.

There is no pathway I'm aware of that will enable a D&D player to play a character the same as one of those NPCs.
 

But some NPCs in the setting are kings (barons, dukes, princes, etc) with d6 (or whatever) hit points; whereas in most approaches to D&D that I'm familiar with, a PC has to be somewhere above 1st level to become a king.

There is no pathway I'm aware of that will enable a D&D player to play a character the same as one of those NPCs.
Of course people can start as royalty if the campaign concept calls for it. But this is not even what I was talking about. Social standing really isn't a rule concept in D&D. In any case, you're nit-picking some questionable edge cases rather than just accepting my overall point. I said several posts ago that I'm not hardcore about it, it is the bread strokes of capacities that I'm talking about.
 

Because Human NPCs are bound by the same rules and restrictions as are Human PCs. Otherwise, a player has every right to get annoyed when an NPC can do what his PC cannot when all other things (e.g. species, class, level, and available options) are equal.
I make the same point as to @Crimson Longinus - D&D does not permit a PC to start the game owning a castle, an army, Plate Mail +3, etc; whereas some NPCs (kings, dukes, etc) enjoy those things.

And it's not as if the reason is mysterious: it's about playability, with game balance as one element of that.

I have there being a very small but not zero chance that you can in fact roll up high noble or even reigning monarch as your pre-adventuring profession, and such a character indeed might have more resources behind it than would the average Joe.

It's happened a couple of times in the 40 years I've been at this; and if nothing else it forces some more detailed worldbuilding of whatever realm/area/region/nation the character rules (or ruled) over.
I don't see why this is gated behind a roll. Do players also have to roll to have their fighter be proficient in the (relatively uncommon) greatsword compared to the (relatively ubiquitous) polearm?

And what happens if the player now decides to enter "the field" wearing their inherited +3 plate mail, accompanied by a small army, etc? I mean, that would completely disrupt most 1st level D&D play as I'm familiar with it.
 



To be honest, this strikes me as very odd. I mean, it's got to be created at some time, right?
I agree! But it’s a readily observable thing, and more so in past decades. There’s a lot of planning idolatry in fandoms.
Game of Thrones and Battlestar Galactica were both savaged in a lot of circles at the ends of their runs, and I felt like "they didn't have a plan for the ending!" was one of the main hammers that folks used to beat the showrunners with. I try to be charitable and read this as "the ending in my head was different than the ending in the creators' heads." That would be a more interesting criticism, at least.
 

I think BG brought a lot of trouble on its own head with the “And they have a plan” line, and Moore saying in interviews that he had a plan when in fact he didn’t. Overconfidence is also a mindkiller, Muad-Ronald. And GOT has the compression problem that hurt the last two seasons of B5, too.

But yeah, there was a lot of “this didn’t reaffirm my genius in guessing all the plot in advance”, too.
 

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