Of Dragons and Tooth Picks

[Xarlen]

Two questions. First, pretty simple:

Does damage to an object, unattended by anyone, count as an attack for negating invisibility?

If so, then wouldn't snapping a twig when you step on it break the enchantment? Or stepping on a bug accidently, breaking a tooth pick, or heck, EATING.

Secondly, and this is more a roleplaying look then a pure rules look, but still:

As it stands, Polymorph doesn't give you any of the Su or Ex of the form you become, nor do you keep any of yours. This is made so PCs do not abuse it.

However, if a Green dragon, of any age category changed into say, a Wood elf... She would have a 10 str, 13 Dex, and 8 Con. She would have none of her Ex or Su abilities. She would look, act, be a normal elf.

Now, to me, I'd think that there should be some way that a polymorphed dragon could Threaten, without becoming their dragon self. For example, crushing a stone with their hand. Some feat of strenght, some evidence of their damage reduction, or blindsight, something. Anything that would Scare the PCs, and make them wonder what this elf is, without just coming out and blaring it obviously.

Any thoughts?

 

[RogueJK]

For example, crushing a stone with their hand. Some feat of strenght...

Hmm...

She would have a 10 str

Hmmmm...

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like crushing a stone with your hand would be pretty hard with a strength of 10.

 

[Piratecat]

You need to use a little bit of common sense when adjudicating the invisibility spell. For instance, if you roll to hit to sunder a weapon, you're certainly making an attack. Destroying unattended objects isn't necessarily one, though. Perhaps someone can remember; isn't there an example in the spell description that says cutting the rope on a rope bridge isn't an attack, so you stay invisible?

Sorry for being lazy and not checking myself. I'm in bed using my laptop, and my books aren't handy.

As for the elf, I'd simply let them get a glimpse of a nictating membrane or a reptilian pupil. Then, in a flash, she's back to normal. Maximum creepout, minimum fuss.

 

[kreynolds]

isn't there an example in the spell description that says cutting the rope on a rope bridge isn't an attack, so you stay invisible?

Yes. Essentially, any action you take that directly effects a target that is considered an enemy is considered an attack and the spell ends. I would definately consider a sunder attempt on a held item as an attack. I would not, however, consider a sunder attempt against an unattended object an action that would end the spell.

 

[Xarlen]

As for the elf, I'd simply let them get a glimpse of a nictating membrane or a reptilian pupil. Then, in a flash, she's back to normal. Maximum creepout, minimum fuss.

Well, the point is to suggest that the Poly'd dragon is a dragon, but just... Something. I would wonder if the reptillian eye would be... somewhat of a give away.

To suggest that this Person may very well be a demon. Or a Ver Powerful mortal. Basicly to make the characters worried, but unsure. Equally, a way for this Person to show they've got something up their sleeve, while not exactly using Raw Power.

An example could be taking a mundane dagger, cutting their arm, and it healing back, without any use of healing magics, spells, etc.

And, Rogue, Yes, I know, my point is that the Poly'd dragon would have a 10 str, and COULDN'T crush the stone.

About the object/invisibility thing, thanks guys. I was referring to unattended objects. Using the dragon aforely mentioned, having the thing being invisible, and simply knock a tree over.

 

[Grazzt]

Originally posted by Xarlen
Two questions. One simple, one more a rambling observation, and a problem with such.

First: Does attacking an unattended object cause you to become visible, if you're under the effects of an Invisibility spell?

My thinking is no: You snap a twig, step on a bug, bite a toothpick in half, heck, EAT, and this would make you visibile?

Stepping on a bug or snapping a twig is not really attacking an unattended object. I would consider attacking a conscious effort on the part of the attacker. As for whether it makes you visible or not.....the spell description (PHB, page 218) states:

"The spell ends if the subject attacks a creature." (purposefully attacking bugs might be included).

Also- further along it says: "Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell." (third paragraph, mid-way through it)

 

[Dreaddisease]

Invisibility is not broken by attacks against unattended objects

From the SRD
"Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth."

You r post was too long and that is as far as I got.

 

[Xarlen]

Okay. Thanks.

Suggestions for the second half?

 

[AuraSeer]

The dragon would still have its mental stats, so it should make a remarkably smart, wise, and good-looking elf. Then again, I suppose the evil dragons aren't too outstanding in this area. A Great Green Wyrm only has Int 22, and many PC wizards could match that. (If you're willing to use a metallic dragon, this would work better; a Great Gold Wyrm has Int and Cha 32.)

Other than that, I can't think of anything that an actual elf couldn't duplicate. You could give it spellcaster levels or a powerful magic item, but either of those would work for a real elf pretending to be a dragon.

 

[Xarlen]

Pshaw. You'd think that the metalic and Chromatic are even, but no. And, I don't like gold dragons... Besides, they won't be That powerful. The PCs would be close to 10th level, perhaps around there; I'm not throwing a Great Wyrm at them.

And, I realize that it *could* be duplicated, but the point is more to show them that this person A) Isn't what they're appearing as, and B) Has got power to back up their claims, without announcing they're a dragon. It could be anything. A demon, for instance.

If they were going to check for magic, they'd simply see the effects of the poly spell. But, I was thinking something like... the lf casually picking up a stone, and as they talk, drop chunks of the rock that she's slowly crushing. Sadly, there's no game balance way of doing that.