Of Primal and the Barbarian

[malcolm_n]

I really like to dip into design, especially the unknown and yet to be disclosed kind. Seeing as this is (so far as I've read) a pretty well rounded crowd with insight on game functions, I wanted to throw out some ideas I had and have spent time fleshing out. Even with the little 4e info we have, it appears to be a straight forward system.

Anyway, on to the meat and potatoes.

The Primal Source:
Your powers, called talents, are instinctual by nature. You draw upon them through a combination of innate ability, focused training, and strong ties to the land or your heritage. Your powers often benefit from Strength of Body, Personality, or Will.

The next is a stretch off the last one. The focus is a Barbarian as a primal defender. I have the whole class written out for anybody interested, but here's a quick peek. Again, suggestions/feedback are all taken and appreciated.

Rage: Once during combat, you may enter a rage as a free action. While enraged, your attacks deal extra damage to marked opponents. As you advance in level, your extra damage increases. You must save against Rage each round. A successful save ends this effect. You take a -5 penalty to this save.
Level Rage Damage
1st - 10th +2d6
11th - 20th +3d6
21st - 30th +5d6

Finally, one fresh talent (primal power) that doesn't rip off of existing content...

Tireless Rage
Barbarian Utility 1
Your fury burns unimpeded by the need for rest
• Encounter Primal
• Free Action
• Effect: If you would succeed to stop your rage, you fail instead.

 

[MaelStorm]

The Barbarian ability is dead on, and the Tireless Rage seem to be a fun utility power for the Barbarian. I have a strange feeling utility powers starts at level 2, but I could be wrong.

 

[DreamChaser]

I kinda like the idea of Primal Rites rather than Primal Talents.

Martial Exploits, Arcane Spells, Divine Prayers, Psionic Gifts, Primal Rites, Shadow Manipulations

DC

 

[malcolm_n]

Rites is nice. I wracked my brain for about 10 minutes (while doing other stuff) to come up with Talents. Only thing about rites is it reminds me of rituals. The name feels like all the abilities take too long.

I'm really glad to see some feedback; I was nervous about posting, being new to these boards. But, since these at least got looked at, here's another tidbit from my write-up on the barbarian. I really liked the 7+ class hp at first level in the PHBLite so i ran with it here.

Barbarian
Role: Defender
Power Source: Primal
Key Abilities: Strength, Constitution, Wisdom
Armor Training: Hide
Weapon Proficiencies: Swords, Axes, Clubs
Bonus to Defenses: +2 Fortitude
Bonus to Attacks: +1 melee
HP per level gained: 8 HP/level
Healing Surges: 6 + Constitution Modifier
Trained Skills: Nature plus three others
Available Skills: Pick three skills from the following list: Athletics, Endurance, Heal, Intimidate, Perception, Thievery
Skill Modifiers: +2 to Perception checks
Build Options: Bear, Boar, and Cat Totem Barbarian
Class Features: Bloodlust, Blood Rage, Primal Challenge, Rage, Tough as Nails

Wis being important kinda follows a tribal/raider theme. It's not all go in for the kill; a lot of tribes or clans use great tactics (a key aspect of the Cat Totem). it also opens up a more shamanistic approach to the barbarian and ties him more to land and culture.

 

[Exen Trik]

Rage: Once during combat, you may enter a rage as a free action. While enraged, your attacks deal extra damage to marked opponents. As you advance in level, your extra damage increases. You must save against Rage each round. A successful save ends this effect. You take a -5 penalty to this save.
Level Rage Damage
1st - 10th +2d6
11th - 20th +3d6
21st - 30th +5d6

Interesting... some thoughts:

I think rage will have a little less added damage, but also be more flexible and work more often.

I'm not sure if it will be necessarily tied to marking, but it probably will work with barbarian marks and other powers. But they still need to have effects outside of rage, so I don't think many will be dependent on it.

I like the forced save duration, it just has the right feel to it. I don't think modified saves has been seen yet, but it seems reasonable.


Also, I'm thinking the barbarian might have a hybrid role, being more of a defender outside of rage and a striker during. Just a hunch.

 

[malcolm_n]

You're on the right track with my line of thinking. I see the Barbarian to push the bounds between defender/striker. Basically the reason to attack the barbarian before anybody else is if you don't, he'll kill you. Take this classic power for example; as well as a glance of the bear totem.

Bear Totem Barbarian: Hit them harder than they hit you. Strength is vital because the more damage you put out, the faster your opponent goes down. Constitution helps greatly if you leave yourself open to gain an advantage. Wisdom is a reasonable third ability score if you want to gain some abilities beyond hack and slash.
Suggested Feat: Weapon Focus (Human Feat: Toughness)
Suggested Skills: Athletics, Endurance, Intimidate, and Nature
Suggested At-Will Powers: Power Attack, Bestial Roar
Suggested Encounter Power: Tireless Rage
Suggested Daily Power: Take No Prisoners

Power Attack:
Barbarian Attack 1
Armor doesn’t even cushion your bone crushing swings
• At-Will Primal, Weapon
• Standard Action
• Target: One Marked Creature
• Attack: Str vs. Reflex
• Hit: 1[W] + Str and you push your mark back 1 square. Increase damage to 2[W] + Str at 21st level.
• Special: If you are raging, increase your rage damage by one die category.

This assumes you're allowed to move into the previously occupied square when you push somebody. If you normally can't, this power would let you.

As to non-rage powers, here's one I thought of that tied nicely with the cat totem.

Decisive Blow:
Barbarian Attack 1
Your successful attack allows your ally an opening.
• At-Will Primal, Weapon
• Standard Action
• Requirement: You must be flanking with at least one ally
• Target: One Marked Creature you flank
• Attack: Wis vs. Will
• Hit: 1[W] + Str and your flanking ally can make an immediate basic attack.

 

[Exen Trik]

I agree that the build options will take the form of totems. I also expect each will effect rage in some way, either by modifiers (bear giving more damage and cat more accuracy?) triggering (if rage is not at will) or secondary effects (boar adding push+follow, as per your idea).

However, I'm pretty sure something called "power attack" will be given to the fighter or perhaps made a feat in the first PH, as opposed to waiting for the barbarian.

 

[Raith5]

You're on the right track with my line of thinking. I see the Barbarian to push the bounds between defender/striker. Basically the reason to attack the barbarian before anybody else is if you don't, he'll kill you. Take this classic power for example; as well as a glance of the bear totem.

This does not seem right to me. Marking abilities suggest something tactical while being a barbarian suggests something far more offensive and instinctual. When I think of a barbarian I think of mobility - charging, etc.

I dont think Conan would wait a target to attack him!

I like the build options BTW.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

One thing I would like to see when we start reaching Paragon and Epic levels with the Barbarian are much more supernatural abilities show through, that reveal his animalistic, basic side as well as his sheer physical ability to change his body into a force of power.

Sorta like Cúchulainn Warp Frenzy:

The first warp-spasm seized Cúchulainn, and made him into a monstrous thing, hideous and shapeless, unheard of. His shanks and his joints, every knuckle and angle and organ from head to foot, shook like a tree in the flood or a reed in the stream. His body made a furious twist inside his skin, so that his feet and shins switched to the rear and his heels and calves switched to the front... On his head the temple-sinews stretched to the nape of his neck, each mighty, immense, measureless knob as big as the head of a month-old child... he sucked one eye so deep into his head that a wild crane couldn't probe it onto his cheek out of the depths of his skull; the other eye fell out along his cheek. His mouth weirdly distorted: his cheek peeled back from his jaws until the gullet appeared, his lungs and his liver flapped in his mouth and throat, his lower jaw struck the upper a lion-killing blow, and fiery flakes large as a ram's fleece reached his mouth from his throat... The hair of his head twisted like the tange of a red thornbush stuck in a gap; if a royal apple tree with all its kingly fruit were shaken above him, scarce an apple would reach the ground but each would be spiked on a bristle of his hair as it stood up on his scalp with rage.

 

[Exen Trik]

This does not seem right to me. Marking abilities suggest something tactical while being a barbarian suggests something far more offensive and instinctual. When I think of a barbarian I think of mobility - charging, etc.

Marking isn't the same as being acting coolly tactical, it can be no more than targeting one foe for the barbarians full fury. Some kind of pinning mark, where the barbarian is toe to toe with the marked target and if it moves away or targets anyone else he gets his head caved in, sounds rather in theme.