off-class PPs?

[fireinthedust]

So I keep thinking that taking an MC feat allows me to take PPs from that MC class, right? If so, that opens up a *lot* of options for good class combos, right?


That said, no one seems to pick the PPs that I think of for examination in CharOp threads I read.

Take Simbarch of Aglarond. It's an amazing PP for a swordmage, but none of the handbooks I've read mention it. Am I missing something?


Any other combos you've thought about that don't get the credit you think they deserve?

 

[Destil]

That said, no one seems to pick the PPs that I think of for examination in CharOp threads I read.

Take Simbarch of Aglarond. It's an amazing PP for a swordmage, but none of the handbooks I've read mention it. Am I missing something?

Any other combos you've thought about that don't get the credit you think they deserve?

Charop has a very narrow focus when you really get down to it. They're an interesting ecosystem to observe, but only the strongest predators survive there. And they don't (last I looked) really tend to worry about party composition or tactics, so it's just whoever can be the most awesome (via mathematical proof) on their own.

Anything for rogues that isn't dagger master (most rogues in my experience either go dagger master or take a path from another class) tends to be ignored...

 

[the Jester]

Well, the cleric imc multiclassed into fighter and then paragon path'ed into pit fighter. Was it optimal? Shrug. But it fit his character as well as anything.

 

[Jhaelen]

That said, no one seems to pick the PPs that I think of for examination in CharOp threads I read.

And that surprises you?

Over at the CO boards are just a bunch of ... (something that might get me banned).

Nah, just joking!

But really, like Destil mentioned this isn't something the majority over there is interested in. If something isn't 'optimal' why even look at it? The boards about 'optimization', after all.

 

[Ryujin]

I double multi-classed my Eladrin Feylock into Bard (both possible MC feats) and then took the Grave Caller PP. My character started with only a 16 CHA, so hitting is obviously sub-optimal. By going Grave Caller I get to "Death Mark" one creature per encounter, allowing me to make 2 rolls to hit with encounter and daily powers on that one opponent. Suddenly I'm a bit more useful in combat. Combined with a Longsword of Summer (+d8 fire damage per hit) makes for some rather useful hits and damage. I think that I managed 4 crits in the last session which, given my usual abysmal rolling, shocked the other players.

OK, so it isn't an Avenger multi, but it does pretty damned well.

 

[Turtlejay]

There are simply so many options for this. Frankly I'm not surprised though, it seems that the handful that increase crit range or some other obvious benefit get all the attention, but considering how many viable options there are, combined with paragon multiclassing, hybriding, hybriding and paragon multiclassing, and hybrid multiclassing, there are thousands of options for sure.

Kind of daunting to think about it, really. Fact is, most of the time you will be better off taking a PP that enhances your native abilities, so off class PP's occur only for specific builds or character concepts.

Jay

 

[fireinthedust]

True, there is the math involved.

Weird thing is that I've had a lot of fun with sub-optimal characters. I played that dragonborn rogue during the D&D MM2 day (or phb2?), and that was good. I'm currently playing a genasi sorcerer, which isn't optimal either.

I'm thinking, though, that the Simbarch is a great class for an MC swordmage. Int-based attacks plus more healing surges? That's great! Better than some of the pure SM PP's, I think.

Another option is the Feylock PP Feytouched in the PHB, right? I saw this one build that (whil i don't know that it's playable for my style) maximized teleporting and teleport damage. Kinda cool. So the SM does damage whenever it teleports; eladrin swordmage teleporting all over the place, kinda cool. Granted, it's on the charop boards... oh well.


But yeah, I guess the CharOP is specific in function. I like how one thread here talked to a newer player about how CharOP is about "what" rather than "how much", like in 3e.

I think it's great to know various ways to mash things, or to break the game. As the GM for my group, I need to know this stuff. I've had games explode in my face horrifically, so I want to know how to avoid this stuff. Also what to avoid (ie: traps).

I wonder, though, since the CharOp handbooks go over and cover the PPs that rock for a particular class, and those that suck, why all of the MC options aren't covered. I mean, for a Swordmage the viable options include just about anything that has INT as the main attack. Skim the wizard section, maybe the defenders with STR or Con abilities, or options that play off a prominant theme for the character (teleportation for Aegis of Assault, etc.).

 

[DracoSuave]

Has CharOp theory evolved past 'Take DemiGod for Win' yet?

 

[fireinthedust]

yeah: now you can take Chosen of... ftw!

I think the issue is that the encounter power unlimited thing makes it attractive. I don't know that waiting ten levels for a mere 10 encounters is really worth it... but yeah.

An epic game with no demigod/chosen would be interesting, I suppose.

 

[Destil]

Last I looked it was mostly the two +2s. And they do like other destinies, but they're the other ones that offer +2s (at least one, ideally two to two primary stats).