D&D 4E Off the Grid: 4E without minis or maps...

[crazy_monkey1956]

Can it be done?

Can 4th Edition be played with narrative style combat? If so, how have you gone about doing it? In what ways must the rules be adapted to take the game "Off the Grid?"

 

[Aulirophile]

You could... but if I wanted to do that, I wouldn't play 4e. There are numerous roleplaying systems built specifically around narrative combat (and they are awesome at it). Highly tactical combat is one of 4es best features.

 

[Crothian]

Yes, with the right DM and players it works just fine. But I've seen it fail miserably when the players and DMs were not on the same page so to speak but how it would work.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I suppose it could be done, and has been done, but I would argue it's not worth the effort, as Aulirophile points out. What's keeping you from using a grid? It can't be money because there are a lot of very cheap options.

 

[crazy_monkey1956]

Aulirophile, let's assume that 4th Edition is the only option on the table for whatever reason (new players, simple majority preference, whatever). Does 4E combat have to be highly tactical? Conversely, can it be highly tactical without maps and minis?

Crothian, what page do the players and DM need to be on? What needs to be established beforehand to make sure everything runs smoothly?

 

[Crothian]

What's keeping you from using a grid?

Some people don't grids. Maybe they don't game at a table and don't have a place or room for a grid. Maybe they have a player or two that is blind or has vision problems and they find it easier to just not use a grid since not everyone can see it.

 

[crazy_monkey1956]

I've played with groups that keep their characters on clipboards with no table in sight, the players sprawled out on easy chairs and couches. And yet, D&D is still the game of choice.

 

[Crothian]

Crothian, what page do the players and DM need to be on? What needs to be established beforehand to make sure everything runs smoothly?

Trust is foremost. The players have to trust that the DM has a firm idea of were everyone is and how the combat is unfolding. Second, they need good communication skills so when the DM describes the placement of everyone the players and DM are understanding the same thing. For some groups the more complex powers might be best to just not use so that would apply to both PCs and DMs. Also, the lack of precision has to be accepted by everyone.

 

[keterys]

I'd suggest worrying less about individual squares, and always err on the side of what's more interesting.

'Is he close enough to the fireplace I can push him into it?' = The answer should almost always be 'Yes'

Consider the battle in sorta short conceptual zones, rather than individual squares. 'I jump over the pews and get onto the dais near the altar'

Some short hand for handling ranged types trying to avoid OAs I'd probably use - engaged and pinned. If a melee guy is in the same zone, he can choose to engage other people in the zone, and a 1-square shift lets you disengage from one guy. If you're engaged in such a way that you can't shift out (like in a corner, blocked by a table, etc) then I'd say you were pinned in. That way you know when to use multi-square shifts and/or just provoke when moving.

In general, I wouldn't sweat the differences between push 2 or 3... a push 1 is near, maybe disengage someone, pop them into something interesting in the zone, _maybe_ move them into a different zone, a 2-3 definitely can put them in a different zone, a 5+ sends him almost anywhere. In general, interesting and fun trumps worrying about any math.

 

[Scribble]

Can it be done?

Can 4th Edition be played with narrative style combat? If so, how have you gone about doing it? In what ways must the rules be adapted to take the game "Off the Grid?"

Well can it be done is relative to what you still want in the combat to begin with.


Do you want/need the level of tactical advantages/disadvantages knowing exactly where everyone is at all times will give you?

If so, then going gridless is probably not the right way to go.

Stuff like "One ally withing 5 squares" won't mean the same thing it does with minis. That will translate for instance essentially to "Anyone the DM rules is close enough."

Things like Opportunity Attacks from people running by will be similar.

As opposed to knowing that the enemy for instance HAS to run through the one square in between you and a friend, you rely on whether or not the DM determines this is the case.

Again with zones of effect and blast radius and what not.

The trick is being ok with generalized positioning as opposed to specific.