OGC Wiki (merged)
- Thread starter mythusmage
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Bretbo
First Post
Yair said:
As I understand it, Green Ronin is basing their strategy away from D20/OGL to reinforce themselves from this potential. While they are still doing D20 material, games like M&M are flying fine regardless of whether there is another edition of D&D. True20 and their licensed material (primarily Warhammer Fantasy) also hedges them from whatever WotC does. This seems a smart strategy on their part; maybe they are truly "leading the way."
I was racking my brains last night trying to think of analogous situations that we could mone for data.
IIRC, there were a number of compilation works a couple of years back - things like "Ultimate Feats", "Arms and Equipment Guide", and so on. And of course Wizards released Unearthed Arcana. Production values aside, none of these works did much more than act as a central clearing house for a whole lot of OGC.
It would be useful if anyone who had their work reused in such a context could articulate the effect it had on their sales. Because I don't see the proposed wiki as being fundamentally different, just larger in scope and with lower production values. Instead of 1,001 feats, I expect to see 10,000. I would also expect the lower price (free) to magnify whatever effects were seen by other compilation works.
IIRC, there were a number of compilation works a couple of years back - things like "Ultimate Feats", "Arms and Equipment Guide", and so on. And of course Wizards released Unearthed Arcana. Production values aside, none of these works did much more than act as a central clearing house for a whole lot of OGC.
It would be useful if anyone who had their work reused in such a context could articulate the effect it had on their sales. Because I don't see the proposed wiki as being fundamentally different, just larger in scope and with lower production values. Instead of 1,001 feats, I expect to see 10,000. I would also expect the lower price (free) to magnify whatever effects were seen by other compilation works.
PosterBoy
First Post
I just wanted to add my voice to those publishers that stated how this would be really bad for the industry.
Why would someone pay for something they can get for free? I can see it as a tool for publishers, but I don't think it's a stretch to see how this could kill pdfs sales and really hurt print sales.
If you look at sales, crunch out sells setting all the time. If someone can get all the rules for Iron Heroes or Darwin's World at some website, why pay $40+ for a print book or $20+ for a pdf(s)?
If someone regularly ripped all the OGC from my products and put it online, I would probably just cease doing d20 and move to a closed system.
Also stated above, backlists are the lifeblood of PDFs. This would NO DOUBT kill backlist sales.
If you didn’t care about the publishing side, then it’s a grand idea. But I think it’s a bit silly to think it will HELP publishers as it seems some people have suggested.
-Chris
Why would someone pay for something they can get for free? I can see it as a tool for publishers, but I don't think it's a stretch to see how this could kill pdfs sales and really hurt print sales.
If you look at sales, crunch out sells setting all the time. If someone can get all the rules for Iron Heroes or Darwin's World at some website, why pay $40+ for a print book or $20+ for a pdf(s)?
If someone regularly ripped all the OGC from my products and put it online, I would probably just cease doing d20 and move to a closed system.
Also stated above, backlists are the lifeblood of PDFs. This would NO DOUBT kill backlist sales.
If you didn’t care about the publishing side, then it’s a grand idea. But I think it’s a bit silly to think it will HELP publishers as it seems some people have suggested.
-Chris
Yair said:
Like Phil, I also think that 4e will not be released under the OGL. I also think it is interesting that Yair is suggesting that perhaps the OGL is failing in some respects (which I actually started a thread on in the General forum a few weeks ago - as I do believe that while it was successful in some respects, it totally failed in others).
Just to keep thinkgs interesting, here was post, made in jest, over on rpg.net. *I* found it to be very scary, as I could actually see it as being plausible.....
Maggan said:Or rather, the best option would be to spread the idea, give it some legitimacy and then letting someone else do the OGC wiki. That way they can always deny responsibility.
And then release a closed 4e, and blame the OGC wiki, because they have to close 4e, or the OGC wiki will kill sales.
/M
PS Actually, I would like to add that I don't think there is a conspiracy, so don't go quoting me as evidence of nefarious plans from WotC.
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
Crothian said:
SO who does have this time? Mike has worked with manty companies and should know which parts of OGC and which parts are not. Many companies like Malhavoc tend to have... difficult to decipher OGC statements. If he's serious about wanting this more than a pie in the sky thing, let him start it.
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
philreed said:
Link?
Wulf Ratbane said:
mearls at rpg.net said:
It's on this page:
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=214244&page=13&pp=10
BryonD
Hero
IMO this is a self-solving problem.
It is a lot easier to predict the results of this hypothetical project than it is to turn it into a real project. It has been asked why Mike doesn't head this up himself. And the answer is more or less that he has to many other more demanding things to do.
Well, to be brutally honest, there are humans with the capability to do this right and humans without. The "with" humans are going to have better things to do. This isn't some humanatrian project or something.
I agree completely with Mike's core concept that developer's sharing the pieces would make for better game in the long run. (I think that is happening quite nicely, actually. But maybe it could be more and faster). But to have Mike, Ben, Phil and others all sharing their tools so that they get them back sharper is not the same as dumping product to the public.
I don't even have the slightest moral problem with someone proving me wrong and doing it. It is the OGL. Play by the rules and see waht happens. I'd prefer they didn't 'cause I want more cool stuff from Ben and that other guy. (just teasing Phil
) But my predictions against it are not based in any right or wrong thinking. No need to go there. It's just a simple reason thing.
It is a lot easier to predict the results of this hypothetical project than it is to turn it into a real project. It has been asked why Mike doesn't head this up himself. And the answer is more or less that he has to many other more demanding things to do.
Well, to be brutally honest, there are humans with the capability to do this right and humans without. The "with" humans are going to have better things to do. This isn't some humanatrian project or something.
I agree completely with Mike's core concept that developer's sharing the pieces would make for better game in the long run. (I think that is happening quite nicely, actually. But maybe it could be more and faster). But to have Mike, Ben, Phil and others all sharing their tools so that they get them back sharper is not the same as dumping product to the public.
I don't even have the slightest moral problem with someone proving me wrong and doing it. It is the OGL. Play by the rules and see waht happens. I'd prefer they didn't 'cause I want more cool stuff from Ben and that other guy. (just teasing Phil
) But my predictions against it are not based in any right or wrong thinking. No need to go there. It's just a simple reason thing.- Status
