OGC Wiki?

[philreed]

Hmm. I think I'd still prefer a 150 page pdf to 50 4 page pdfs which is rather unmanagable. I bought Magic Missile to see if I liked the idea, but I think I'll wait before buying any others to see if a compilation comes out.

Bret and I have discussed a hardcover collection if he hits over 50 releases in the series.

 

[Pinotage]

Bret and I have discussed a hardcover collection if he hits over 50 releases in the series.

No pdf? Even if I say 'Pretty Please'?

Shucks. How long will I have to wait for 50 releases - a year? You got to whip that man to work harder, Phil!

Pinotage

 

[Man-thing]

The previous strike comment strikes me as the guy standing in the comic book shop outraged that his new favourite comic has been cancelled after he just picked it up in trade paperback.

 

[Henry]

Well then let's get to the heart of the matter.

If you took all the game mechanics out out of Grim Tales and posted it for free, what do you suppose would be the effect on my sales?

Interestingly enough, your deal with Kirin'Tor may help us find out, by the beginning of next year. Personally, I can't wait for SRD and Chargen, myself, because this by-hand business is slowing my spread of the GTospel.

 

[Psion]

Wow. So all you do is provide mechanics? No interesting background, no decent fluff? You book is nothing but 100% mechanics, with nothing else to offer?

Heh. I know that's false. His recent Grim Tales adventure, The Seven Saxons (link), is dripping with flavor. Just reading the pregen descriptions alone was enough to make me want to run it.

 

[Nellisir]

The question is - who does the repository serve? If it is meant to be an online resource for homebrewers only, there is no need to limit the size of the Section 15. A huge Section 15 will make it difficult to use the material in a non-digital format, so publishers may want to actually buy each other's work if they want to use it (*gasp!*), but for the wiki's end user the size of the Section 15 simply doesn't matter.

I thought about this. The problem is, that's a double penalty on publishers. Not only are they (potentially) losing profit, they have to buy material their customers are getting for free. I don't think a OGC repository can please everyone, but it can try to serve as many facets of the customer base as possible. A publisher that benefits from the wiki is more likely to voluntarily feed back into than one that doesn't benefit.

I'm not at all clear on what's needed in the Section 15. Can I change the order? Can I use bullet points or stars? If the original has some emphasis (indentation, bold), should I maintain it?
I just don't know.

A person (or publisher) updating Section 15 of the OGL has to include the copyright information of his work, and the copyright information included in the S.15 of all OGL works he draws from. That's essentially it.
The "common form" that's evolved places each copyright entry on its own line, in either a bulleted or blank list; each entry is only listed once. It's often in "reverse" chronological order -- the SRD is listed first, and the current work listed last, but I've seen vice versa, and other variations. It should be legible, but many (most) publishers have adopted an 8pnt (or smaller) font, at least for that section.

AEG had a habit of placing their copyright information outside the Section 15, but I'm not convinced that was very kosher.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Well then let's get to the heart of the matter.

If you took all the game mechanics out out of Grim Tales and posted it for free, what do you suppose would be the effect on my sales?

I honestly don't know.

If I could honestly put out the numbers, it would solve a lot of arguement.

I do want to say, up front, before anyone accuses Wulf of being selfish with his works, or unreasonable, I was kindly allowed to use Grim Tales insanity rules for free.

I doubt it would have a major effect on you, Wulf, but I also don't think that publishers should HAVE to participate in the OGC Wiki, and I also believe they should have the option, nay, the RIGHT to have thier material removed from it by request.

If you're not comfortable with it (Which I don't blame you for) then don't participate.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Heh. I know that's false. His recent Grim Tales adventure, The Seven Saxons (link), is dripping with flavor. Just reading the pregen descriptions alone was enough to make me want to run it.

I knew it was false too. I was being overly dramatic and a typical "Raltsian" jackass. Forgot to switch modes from the voice I was writing text in a product in to an appropriate ENWorld voice.

Sorry if I came off a little hard-assed, Wulf.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

OK, let's do an experiment...

Let's create a setting Wiki.

We'll see how well it does, how many authors are willing to put stuff in from thier own works. We'll see how difficult it is to Section 15 it, as well as who is willing to participate and who isn't.

That will also show how difficult the whole thing will be.

Two rules: You can only contribute your OWN work; everything must be according to the STL.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Heh. I know that's false. His recent Grim Tales adventure, The Seven Saxons (link), is dripping with flavor. Just reading the pregen descriptions alone was enough to make me want to run it.

Written by Destan. But thanks anyway!

And it's not Open Content, nor is there really any relevant content to cull from Seven Saxons for a wiki project, so it's not relevant to the discussion.

The OGC Wiki will shut down innovations in mechanics-- some of which I am wholly responsible for (Mass Combat, GT Spellcasting, Horror, to name a few I am proud of), some of which I only helped with (the Chi/Rho method of CR/EL/XP developed here at ENworld), and some of which I just tried to improve on (Grim Tales' blend of D&D, d20Modern, and Spycraft).

The primary proponents of the OGC Wiki (I'm not lumping Ralts in here, btw) believe that such innovations in game mechanics have no compensatory value.

I object to that on ideological grounds.

But then I am kind of an odd case. I don't rely on this to pay my bills. I couldn't possibly. (Put me in the "I'd rather make a living..." category.) I can afford to take a position on this one even though I have no real stake in the outcome. I put out about 6 or 7 PDFs last year, and I believe I have grossed about $1000. Seriously. I would estimate my profits at less than $500, once you cut out Excel programmer's fees, artists, and freelance writers.

Then of course you'd have to subtract from that $500 what I have actually spent at RPGnow, which is not an insignificant amount. I spread the love.

So putting my stuff in an OGC Wiki isn't "putting me out of business", but it's definitely going to cut down on my "gaming funds" and, more importantly, it's just really very definitely pissing on my shoes.