OGL, d20 limitations
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jmucchiello
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d) move on. Conceive of a character who doesn't have the spell casting prodigy feat in his background. Can't you just raise the character's Int (or Wis/Cha) by 2 directly. It's more powerful than the feat, doesn't cost a feat and involves not borrowing/stealing, etc.MEG Hal said:
There are so many ideas out there that do not tread on WotC IP. Can't you stay away from such a tiny amount of material?
Good Morning EN World
Like I said, if there weren't any WotC products at all, then someone would've invented it and, if someone hadn't of by the time I got around to it, I would've because it's akin to air: you damn well know it should exist but you can't see it
Ok, that wasn't the best analogy, but I'm sure you get what I mean, don't you?
Take your suggestion, for instance, if I were to increase the said stat by 2 then I'd be giving a lot more than a feat is worth and would then have to still limit it within a certain point-buy for it to be seen as 'legitimate', at least in my eyes. Why should I do that when the perfect answer is to give my character a feat? Oh no! Lo and behold, it's WotC property! Oh no, follow the OGL trail, follow the OGL, oh way oh, it's d20, oh way oh, it's d20, oh no, you've landed in Hot Water, you're among the sued now, oh, Djoran, Djoran, what are you doing, Djoran, oh my god it's the wicked business manager of the WotC, it's Anthony Valterra, ahahahahahaha, I'll get you my pretties, ahhh, you and you're little company too, ahahahaha, oh Anthony you beatch, you've been under everything but Hackmaster! STOP IT RIGHT NOW! Ahh, I'm melting...
But sleep deprived tangents aside, limiting people from using things like feats which are fairly obvious (I mean, Educated... like someone wouldn't have thought of that eventually) or essential is to me a little silly.
But I'm happy enough to go around it. The purpose of this thread was to find a solution and MEG Hal provided it, even if it wasn't what I was hoping for, and I thnak him for it.
Now... back to the war...
No, actually, I can't.jmucchiello said:
Like I said, if there weren't any WotC products at all, then someone would've invented it and, if someone hadn't of by the time I got around to it, I would've because it's akin to air: you damn well know it should exist but you can't see it
Ok, that wasn't the best analogy, but I'm sure you get what I mean, don't you?
Take your suggestion, for instance, if I were to increase the said stat by 2 then I'd be giving a lot more than a feat is worth and would then have to still limit it within a certain point-buy for it to be seen as 'legitimate', at least in my eyes. Why should I do that when the perfect answer is to give my character a feat? Oh no! Lo and behold, it's WotC property! Oh no, follow the OGL trail, follow the OGL, oh way oh, it's d20, oh way oh, it's d20, oh no, you've landed in Hot Water, you're among the sued now, oh, Djoran, Djoran, what are you doing, Djoran, oh my god it's the wicked business manager of the WotC, it's Anthony Valterra, ahahahahahaha, I'll get you my pretties, ahhh, you and you're little company too, ahahahaha, oh Anthony you beatch, you've been under everything but Hackmaster! STOP IT RIGHT NOW! Ahh, I'm melting...
But sleep deprived tangents aside, limiting people from using things like feats which are fairly obvious (I mean, Educated... like someone wouldn't have thought of that eventually) or essential is to me a little silly.
But I'm happy enough to go around it. The purpose of this thread was to find a solution and MEG Hal provided it, even if it wasn't what I was hoping for, and I thnak him for it.
Now... back to the war...
DungeonKeeperUK
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DDK said:
Mind if I step in too...
What are you supposed to do as a writer, who wants to write something for d20...... well probably something similar to all the other writers and publishers out there, theres a wealth of d20 material and some heavy weight d20 companies out there who have been coping very well for quite some time....
The opening up of the d20 licence was there for people to build upon with thier own worlds and ideas not to fortify WoTC licence, we should be thankful for what they have given us not angry for what they keep back.
I kind of see your point regarding the not being able to quote the name of a feat within WoTC book , and yet really don't have a problem with it, make a simialr one up, hone it more to the campaign setting, give it more flavour and feeling......
*Note though I do have links to MEG below I say this not as an employee of theirs, I merely freelance for them, but say it as a writier who has had no problem with the licence as it stands and prefers to develop upon an idea, and also the fact I love Hal and Hound like they were puppys wearing hats in a basket full of marshmallows...
::skulks back into the shadows::
As a d20 publisher I can say there is only one time when I can say I sort of wished to have material open to me. My generally practice is not to bother reading most WOTC products...in which case I don't have to worry about not having something available to me. If I need something, and I haven't found it in another d20 product that I'm aware of.. I create it. Thats why I am a d20 creator/writer/man of many talents. The one time was when one of my writers created a really neat spell, and I had it pointed out that it was similar to a WOTC spell. I could have let it go, since I personally wasn't aware, but I didn't want to go read up on the spell to see how simialr it was.. so I was stuck.
I don't think I need an organization lobbying for more freedoms from WOTC. Okay.. maybe I might want a license to produce in one of the settings (since I don't have enough funds to license them myself), but I'd be joining a group of people hopefully with enough combined money to license it.
I don't think I need an organization lobbying for more freedoms from WOTC. Okay.. maybe I might want a license to produce in one of the settings (since I don't have enough funds to license them myself), but I'd be joining a group of people hopefully with enough combined money to license it.
This might just be a culture and upbringing thing...
To explain...
Culture: Australia has VERY powerful unions. From what I understand, unions in America and Canada simply haven't got even remotely the same level of power unions do here.
Upbringing: My mother has always been a strong supporter of unions and was always a union representative. For about ten years that I lived with her, she worked in what's called the Arbitration Commission, which is where all employer vs. employee disputes end up if a resolution cannot be negotiated.
So I guess it's just in my nature to form a lobby group and demand what I want, when I want it, NOW!
After reading this it just occured to me that I may well think differently from most other people here due to both cultural reasons and upbringing.tensen said:
To explain...
Culture: Australia has VERY powerful unions. From what I understand, unions in America and Canada simply haven't got even remotely the same level of power unions do here.
Upbringing: My mother has always been a strong supporter of unions and was always a union representative. For about ten years that I lived with her, she worked in what's called the Arbitration Commission, which is where all employer vs. employee disputes end up if a resolution cannot be negotiated.
So I guess it's just in my nature to form a lobby group and demand what I want, when I want it, NOW!
DungeonKeeperUK
First Post
Re: This might just be a culture and upbringing thing...
You know I was going to jump you there stating I am from Britiain and man do we have a history of Union disputes (its the Firefighters just now...) but then realised what many of our unions have become compared to how they used to be..... hehehe But really I come from a coal mining background (family not me) and the coal mining communites are set about unions, its sludges through my blood...
This wasn't meant as a dig by the way, just wanted to fly my British Flag (we don't get to do it too often
)
EDIT we don't have a firfighters so I changed it to the Firefighters.... oops... damn my fat fingers...)
DDK said:
You know I was going to jump you there stating I am from Britiain and man do we have a history of Union disputes (its the Firefighters just now...) but then realised what many of our unions have become compared to how they used to be.....
hehehe But really I come from a coal mining background (family not me) and the coal mining communites are set about unions, its sludges through my blood... This wasn't meant as a dig by the way, just wanted to fly my British Flag (we don't get to do it too often
)EDIT we don't have a firfighters so I changed it to the Firefighters.... oops... damn my fat fingers...)
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PatrickLawinger
First Post
Re: This might just be a culture and upbringing thing...
I am sorry, but all I see in your posts is a failure to understand the OGL, OGC, and the d20 STL/ SRD.
All this union and upbringing BS aside. There is a reason for the word "property" in "Intellectual Property." WotC chose to share their IP for a number of reasons, some of them involving benefits for themselves. They were under no obligation to do this. Forgotten Realms is a big money maker for them, do you really think they are going to give that IP away?
Oh wait, maybe they should, and the next time they lay people off we can complain about what a big, evil, nasty, horrible corporation Hasbro is.
The truth is, if you ask them for permission to use something they almost always say yes. People are presently posting "what about product X from company Y" questions due to the "missing monsters" in the released SRD vs the gentleman's agreement and MM. I would bet that companies taking the time to write WotC legal with their requests to use those monsters have them granted.
It is like going to the park and using someone's basketball (frisbee, whatever). If you walk up and grab it they are going to get pissed. If you ask to borrow it, most people say sure, just bring it back when you are done. WotC needs to make it clear that people require permission to use their IP. This insures they don't lose it. It doesn't mean that they are going to say "no."
Frankly, if you write something FR specific, WotC probably isn't going to say yes and therefore nobody is going to publish it. FR is their world, they aren't going to want you messing with it. If you want to use a few feats, they'll probably okay it.
Calling people on this board two-faced, well, that isn't going to help you publish anything at all.
If you want to write d20 material, download the SRD and use the SRD (and only the SRD) when writing. It is a small price to pay for access to a huge market that is otherwise closed to you.
Edit: Typos, I would correct some bad grammar too, but the baby is going ape ...
DDK said:
After reading this it just occured to me that I may well think differently from most other people here due to both cultural reasons and upbringing.
To explain...
Culture: Australia has VERY powerful unions. From what I understand, unions in America and Canada simply haven't got even remotely the same level of power unions do here.
Upbringing: My mother has always been a strong supporter of unions and was always a union representative. For about ten years that I lived with her, she worked in what's called the Arbitration Commission, which is where all employer vs. employee disputes end up if a resolution cannot be negotiated.
So I guess it's just in my nature to form a lobby group and demand what I want, when I want it, NOW!
I am sorry, but all I see in your posts is a failure to understand the OGL, OGC, and the d20 STL/ SRD.
All this union and upbringing BS aside. There is a reason for the word "property" in "Intellectual Property." WotC chose to share their IP for a number of reasons, some of them involving benefits for themselves. They were under no obligation to do this. Forgotten Realms is a big money maker for them, do you really think they are going to give that IP away?
Oh wait, maybe they should, and the next time they lay people off we can complain about what a big, evil, nasty, horrible corporation Hasbro is.
The truth is, if you ask them for permission to use something they almost always say yes. People are presently posting "what about product X from company Y" questions due to the "missing monsters" in the released SRD vs the gentleman's agreement and MM. I would bet that companies taking the time to write WotC legal with their requests to use those monsters have them granted.
It is like going to the park and using someone's basketball (frisbee, whatever). If you walk up and grab it they are going to get pissed. If you ask to borrow it, most people say sure, just bring it back when you are done. WotC needs to make it clear that people require permission to use their IP. This insures they don't lose it. It doesn't mean that they are going to say "no."
Frankly, if you write something FR specific, WotC probably isn't going to say yes and therefore nobody is going to publish it. FR is their world, they aren't going to want you messing with it. If you want to use a few feats, they'll probably okay it.
Calling people on this board two-faced, well, that isn't going to help you publish anything at all.
If you want to write d20 material, download the SRD and use the SRD (and only the SRD) when writing. It is a small price to pay for access to a huge market that is otherwise closed to you.
Edit: Typos, I would correct some bad grammar too, but the baby is going ape ...
Last edited:
PatrickLawinger
First Post
Zulkir said:
Eek, for being nice and posting a reply, people are going to spam you with questions about monsters, quick, hide!
Bleh, can't type, sick baby in my lap.
My point, WotC has a lot of great, helpful people, ask them a question (nicely), and you'll get an answer. Anthony Valterra just proved that nicely didn't he?
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