OGL question

[DMH]

Does a publisher have to include its own products in the section 15 of the licence when using OGC from those products?

 

[tensen]

The simple answer is yes.

 

[kingpaul]

As Tensen said, the simple answer is yes. However, I know of publishers that don't include their own products in S15 because they're reusing content they already own.

 

[Paradigm]

Does a publisher have to include its own products in the section 15 of the licence when using OGC from those products?

Yes, and that leads to some interesting misunderstandings.

For example, if I want to use an item that originally appeared in the Player's Guide to Arcanis, a title that tapped into dozens of OGL sources, I have to list each and every book included in the S15 of the PGtA. Even if the item I am using isn't in any way derivative of anything other than the PGtA and the SRD.

Many readers look at the license page, see 30 books in the S15 and assume that there is little to no original material, or at least a great deal of rehash. In fact, the book could be almost entirely new material. Even if an example NPC was of a race from the PGtA, and nothing else, every single book from the beginning is supposed to be listed in the S15.

 

[Morrus]

Many readers look at the license page, see 30 books in the S15 and assume that there is little to no original material

Many readers? I suspect the incidence of customers who read the OGL at the back of the book is extraordinarily low. I further suspect that those who read it prior to purchase and base a purchasing decision upon it is lower than that by an order of magnitude. It sounds like very extraordinary behaviour to me.

 

[trancejeremy]

I dunno, it's always the first page of a d20 book that I read. I don't think it's an unusual as you think, at least among people who buy d20 books vs. WOTC D&D books.

 

[trancejeremy]

Anyway, I actually don't think they do. Because they own their own OGL stuff, they aren't actually using the OGL when they use their own OGL material.

It's not like a first publication deal, where you have to include the first published source of the content. Just because you publish something as OGL, doesn't mean you give up your rights to it, you are just licensing it to others. Like WOTC - they published the bulk of the PHB as OGL material, but at the same time, they publish the same stuff over and over in non-OGL books.

Only if their OGL material is derivative (and by that, I mean using their text) of someone elses material, do they have to include that.

Furthermore, who would take issue with such a thing? The 3rd parties in question could never prove that the original company didn't have a version of that book sans any 3rd party content. Because all they would need is a PDF or manuscript or something without it (which they probably do have, draft versions).

Not to mention, even in practice, I don't know of any company ever taking action on OGL violations, despite misuses.

For instance, something like this sorta happened, but the company in question used material that was actually from another company, but didn't credit in the second product they used. Mongoose used part of their Noble class power class in the Conan RPG, but didn't credit the company that much of the Noble power class was derived from (Fading Suns d20). Even though some of the text is identical in Conan RPG as Fading Suns d20, AFAIK, Hollistic never did anything, even when that same text appeared in later Conan products.

(Though it's sort of karmic for Hollistic, as they literally borrowed stuff from the Star Wars d20 RPG. They rewrote the sentences somewhat, enough to get by legally, I'd guess but kinda tacky)

(And yeah, WOTC took action vs Fast Forward, but that was for them using stuff from non OGL sources, like gods and other IP)

 

[Krolik]

For example, if I want to use an item that originally appeared in the Player's Guide to Arcanis, a title that tapped into dozens of OGL sources, I have to list each and every book included in the S15 of the PGtA. Even if the item I am using isn't in any way derivative of anything other than the PGtA and the SRD.

Technically speaking if you have the original OGL source then you would only need to include that in your Section 15. You wouldn't need to say you got the information from the Player's Guide to Arcanis. Even if you don't have the original source material but knew what book the material you are using came from you could get away with just citing the original book rather then the entire S15 of Arcanis.

 

[Mark CMG]

The license requires the following -

6.Notice of License Copyright: You must update the COPYRIGHT NOTICE portion of this License to include the exact text of the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any Open Game Content You are copying, modifying or distributing, and You must add the title, the copyright date, and the copyright holder's name to the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any original Open Game Content you Distribute.

First, you include the OGL in any product containing OGC. If you use OGC from elsewhere, you copy the entire section fifteen from that source into your own and, if you add new OGC (including even slightly altered old OGC), you create a copyright notice for the new product in which it is appearing and include that in the section fifteen.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Mark's got it right.