OGL To Be Renamed Game System License (GSL)

[Nellisir]

I guess my major objection is that I believe it is Wizard's choice to change the style of license, so I think they have their rights to do so, even if people think it might be more restrictive.

No one has said they don't have the right to change the license, so there goes your major objection. Having the right and utilizing that right, though are not the same thing.

I think Wizards has more sales than all the third parties combined.

So much for a d20 glut hurting WotC.

So it won't affect the DMs, it just affects publishers.

That's remarkably shortsighted. It's also wrong, but I'm tired of explaining it to people. Suffice to say some private citizens like to be legally creative, and not have their work only exist at the sufferance of a corporation that could (and has) demanded its removal for any reason.

I have a feeling the GSL will not be as restrictive as some think.

Yup, that's what I thought -- until I heard the details they've released. The most they've indicated they'd do is quite a bit less than the minimum I'd hoped.

You may even get to write an adventure featuring beholders, mind flayers, yuan-ti, etc.

Don't care. Already wrote them out.

In fact, I'm hoping they allow various levels of licenses, similar to how the creative commons licenses work.

There are already two levels - the $5000 level, and everyone else. We've heard nothing that prevents WotC from putting a similar time delay restriction on using new GSC (Game System Content), and I honestly expect that they will - so don't plan on using any GSC for at least 6 months from its release date, unless you pony up $5000 (I think it'll be 12 months, really). But that's within their rights.

 

[Ranger REG]

I wasn't aiming the "ripping off" comment at the OGL use in 3e.

It's being aimed at the people who want to adapt 4e, which is NOT OGL, into an OGL, for whatever reason they feel justified to do so. I've got no problem with people continuing to use the 3e OGL, just not for adapting 4e rules.

Until the GSL have a different term (as I stated in my first post in this thread), OGC is OGC. I can use it, modify it, whatever I want.

Since 4e is already a derivative of d20 Modern -- which can be found in the Modern System Reference Documents -- it's not too hard to clone the 4e rules concept.

But that being said, I still think "ripping" books like Unearthed Arcana, GOO, True20, etc, while legal and part of the OGL, still violates a Golden Rule. Whenever I bring this up people defend the OGL as worded...

Unfortunately, not many follow the Golden Rules as much as not many made good-quality d20 products in the early years. You have to take the bad with the good, which is why d20 and OGL are still here.

 

[Nellisir]

Since 4e is already a derivative of d20 Modern -- which can be found in the Modern System Reference Documents -- it's not too hard to clone the 4e rules concept.

Yes, but then you would be eeevvvviiillll....

And, you know, it doesn't matter if you had an idea first - if WotC publishes something like it later on, you're still eeevvvviiillll....

 

[I'm A Banana]

Hell, half of the 4e ideas already existed in one form or another with 3rd party products. I mean, check out FFZ. All of this was written pre-4e and it has more levels, more even math, more cinematic focus, less reliance on magic items...d20 modern has a basic tier system. Iron Heroes has encounter-traps and per-encounter/per-day/at-will powers....

Information wants to be free, you can't put the genie back in the bottle, et cetra.

 

[kunadam]

Yes, but then you would be eeevvvviiillll....

I can live with that much more than with the fact that I cannot legally translate the SRD and put it on my website. With that I was catering to an audience that won't buy WotC product at that moment (they do not know the language), but once they are captured by the game, they might later on.
And publishing RPG in Hungary is a way to financial disaster. The market is tiny, and by the time a translated rules set / supplement comes out the core fans have the book in English already.

So I hope someone will come out with a rules set that is OGC and 99% compatible with 4th edition.

An WotC will get my money anyway as I'm a fan of D&D, and will buy 4th ed to have a look.

 

[Nellisir]

Hell, half of the 4e ideas already existed in one form or another with 3rd party products. I mean, check out FFZ. All of this was written pre-4e and it has more levels, more even math, more cinematic focus, less reliance on magic items...d20 modern has a basic tier system. Iron Heroes has encounter-traps and per-encounter/per-day/at-will powers....

I totally agree. (what's FFZ, though?) I've said almost exactly the same thing, even (I said 70%, though). I don't think it makes a difference to JohnRTroy, though -- we're already "contaminated" by our knowledge of 4e, and to attempt to create anything that vaguely resembles 4e makes us immoral, unethical, and worthy of the wrath of lawyers.

 

[Ranger REG]

Yes, but then you would be eeevvvviiillll....

And, you know, it doesn't matter if you had an idea first - if WotC publishes something like it later on, you're still eeevvvviiillll....

Ideas cannot be copyrighted, only a particular expression of an idea in a body of work can.

If I'm evil to clone their game concept, then so be it.

 

[JohnRTroy]

I totally agree. (what's FFZ, though?) I've said almost exactly the same thing, even (I said 70%, though). I don't think it makes a difference to JohnRTroy, though -- we're already "contaminated" by our knowledge of 4e, and to attempt to create anything that vaguely resembles 4e makes us immoral, unethical, and worthy of the wrath of lawyers.

You misunderstand me. And I never used the word "evil".

I saved my criticism for those who are specifically and deliberately trying to create a 4e compatible system because they don't like the 4e license (which they haven't seen yet), because they put the "spirit of the OGL" above whether or not even 4e is good.

If there are rules that are similar, so be it. But a specific deliberate attempt, in my mind, to end-run around the new license by using the old license is wrong, since I respect that the game system belongs to Wizards and they are free to license a new version of it however they see fit.

I have more respect for the people who will do one of two things.

1) Take a moral stand and stick with 3e. If you truly feel that the OGL is important, stick with the 3e ruleset. If enough people do it, that will show Wizards that people care more about the license than the game.

2) Accept that 4e has a different license, and make products under that license.

To me, it's the same type of argument as filesharing. Don't like the high price of music, use the legal free alternatives (radio), complain but still buy it, or do without. Don't download pirated versions.

But *sigh*, those who want to try to do it will do it.

 

[Oldtimer]

But a specific deliberate attempt, in my mind, to end-run around the new license by using the old license is wrong, since I respect that the game system belongs to Wizards and they are free to license a new version of it however they see fit.

So only Wizards has the divine right to do as they see fit? Why is that?

We were given the OGL by Wizards at one time and using it to whatever purpose it can be used is not unethical or wrong in any way. Wizards don't own the ideas behind 4e.

And please stop bringing filesharing into the discussion. I promise you it will get ugly...

 

[Oldtimer]

I can live with that much more than with the fact that I cannot legally translate the SRD and put it on my website. With that I was catering to an audience that won't buy WotC product at that moment (they do not know the language), but once they are captured by the game, they might later on.
And publishing RPG in Hungary is a way to financial disaster. The market is tiny, and by the time a translated rules set / supplement comes out the core fans have the book in English already.

So I hope someone will come out with a rules set that is OGC and 99% compatible with 4th edition.

An WotC will get my money anyway as I'm a fan of D&D, and will buy 4th ed to have a look.

QFT!

I'm in a similar situation in my small country of the world.