Ogre Advancement

[WizarDru]

I'm a tad confused about advancing an Ogre. Why do they increase by class levels exclusively? I realize I could just add levels of 'giant' to them, but when do they change size class? Do they change size?

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Since a hill giant (12HD) is still large, i wouldn't resize an "advanced" ogre (who starts with 4HD), unless you were to give it enough HD to attain cloud or storm-giant levels...

AR

 

[Greybar]

If it helps, Upper_Krust's CR work from the MM recommends these as typical levels:

Large (to 4HD)
Huge (to 8HD)
Gargantuan (to 16HD)
Colossal (to 32HD)

with the following modifiers
Stocky/Bulky (ex: Dwarf) x1.5
Thin/Frail (ex: Skeleton) x2/3
Overtly Stocky/Bulky (ex: Xorn) x2
Overtly Thin/Frail (ex: Snake) x1/2

"eg. A Fire Giant is 12ft-tall; but also noticably stocky. Therefore by these rules its Hit Dice would be 9. 12 (ft.) ÷ 2 = 6 (Hit Dice) x 1.5 (stocky) = 9 HD (meaning it would also actually be Huge Size)."

not official, but if you like UK's research & integration work it's a good place to start with your Ogre advancement.

john

 

[Ashardalon]

By the rules, an ogre cannot advance by HD, only by class levels.
A monster that says "By class level" usually cannot advance by gaining more racial HD.
A monster that normally advances by racial HD however can advance by class levels if it is intelligent enough (most sources say Int at least 3), even if it has a hard time manipulating equipment (such as unicorns).
That said, if I where to advance an ogre by racial hit dice, I'd increase its size at about 2.5 times it's original Hit Dice (10), and top the advancement at 3 times its original Hit Dice (12). That would be house rule territory, though.

 

[Spatula]

Of the creatures that do advance via racial HD, they generally increase one size category when their HD doubles.

I would say, though, that if you just want a bigger, stronger, ogre, give it PC stats. If that's not enough, add on fighter or warrior levels (warrior would be the easier of the two to add, of course).

 

[WizarDru]

By the rules, an ogre cannot advance by HD, only by class levels.
A monster that says "By class level" usually cannot advance by gaining more racial HD.

In other words, I didn't miss anything. I don't mind advancing an ogre that way, I just wanted to see if I was being dense and missing an obvious rule. I know all about advancing creatures by hit dice, thanks. I was just a little suprised, since giants work differently.

Thanks, all.

 

[Klaus]

IIRC, one of the designers (I wanna say Skip?) mentioned that you *could* advance any creature by giving more "racial HD", but 1) it's more often than not a poor choice compared to class levels; and 2) unless specified, such creatures *never* change size.

So you could have, theoretically, a 20HD unclassed ogre. It'd be still Large size, it'd gain attacks, saves, skills as a giant (plus feats at every 3rd HD and ability increase at every 4th HD), and it'd get its behind kicked by a 4HD 16-level ogre fighter.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

I was just a little suprised, since giants work differently.

How so? Every giant (as in hill, stone, frost, etc.) advancement is by class level...

AR

 

[WizarDru]

Dang. I'm having a bad week reading the SRD. I looked at it earlier, and somehow transpose the previous entry with the Cloud Giant. You're right...they only advance by class level.

I think I need a nap.