Ohhhhhh Submarines!

[JeffB]

Interesting observations JeffB.

I haven't read the adventure yet. You care to give a summary, along with your thoughts? I'm interested in your opinion..

Well , thank you- but my opinion is to take a gander yourself and decide if YOU like it! My opinion is of far less value to you than your own

I need to give it a read through, I've not been able to sit down for any great length of time to do so yet. Frankly the subject matter will likely keep me from being objective. I still have issues with Eberron's "tech" even though I love the setting overall

 

[Mallus]

As much as I think the adventure looks cool (hey, it's Jules Verne for D&D!), to me the "steampunk"-ishness of submarines (and airships and ornithopters in the Adventurer's Vault) doesn't really fit with my concept of the Dark Ages "points of light" conceit. These sort of technological wonders require a greater level of civilization than is expected to exist in a "points of light" setting. Yes? No? Maybe?

In fantasy settings, things like submarines and ornithopters are produced by rare genius inventors and artisans (who are frequently mad, to boot), not by societies with sufficiently developed industrial/technological bases.

 

[the Jester]

As much as I think the adventure looks cool (hey, it's Jules Verne for D&D!), to me the "steampunk"-ishness of submarines (and airships and ornithopters in the Adventurer's Vault) doesn't really fit with my concept of the Dark Ages "points of light" conceit. These sort of technological wonders require a greater level of civilization than is expected to exist in a "points of light" setting. Yes? No? Maybe?

Just seems to me like the WotC designers don't really care about consistency.

Leonardo da Vinci, born a couple hundred years earlier, could solve this problem for you.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I too have no problem whatsoever with technology in my D&D (including Points of Light D&D) so seeing Submarines is just more goodness for me on-top of ornithopters and airships. Now where are my firearms!

Also, another good setting example of where technology mixes with a less developed society would be Dinotopia. You got all sorts of different tech there, one of my favourite image in the second book, "The Lost World" is at the port where all the different submarines are.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Why assume that things like ornithopters and submarines are technology? Why can't they just be magic items? The apparatus of Kwalish was certainly a magic item when it first appeared, not an actual "steampunk-type" device. And of course, nothing in Eberron is actually "tech" or "steampunk."

So the way I see it, for instance, the ornithopters are small mechanical devices that require magic, not steam or coal or what-have-you, to get their wings flapping and to give them lift. Presto, no need for any higher tech in a PoL setting.

 

[pukunui]

Leonardo da Vinci, born a couple hundred years earlier, could solve this problem for you.

Except the good ol' Leo was born during the Renaissance, a time of enlightenment and high civizilation that came centuries after the very "Points of Lightish" Dark and Medieval Ages ...

Why assume that things like ornithopters and submarines are technology? Why can't they just be magic items? The apparatus of Kwalish was certainly a magic item when it first appeared, not an actual "steampunk-type" device. And of course, nothing in Eberron is actually "tech" or "steampunk."

So the way I see it, for instance, the ornithopters are small mechanical devices that require magic, not steam or coal or what-have-you, to get their wings flapping and to give them lift. Presto, no need for any higher tech in a PoL setting.

I wasn't really assuming that they used used steam or coal or anything like that, but they definitely have that sort of Final Fantasy "mix of magic and tech" vibe -- at least, for me they do. "Steampunk" just seemed to be the right term.

Don't get me wrong! I think those things are all very cool. I just have trouble swallowing them in the same breath as "points of light".

Of course, you don't have to use them, but if you do, remember that there were several highly advanced civilizations in the past. Airships, Ornithopters, Submarines, or what else might be remainders of earlier civilizations, like the Nerathi Empire or Bael Turath.

Or they are the work of a mad wizard (or artificer). Instead of creating a world destruction spell or a "Gate to the Abyss" spell, he build an airship. (Maybe to fly through the portal created by his "Gate to the Far Realms"-spell)

Nothing in the rules tell us who hard or easy it is to find any of the items, they just tell us how expensive they are. (Though you might use the price as a guideline - considering that an Airship costs money appropriate for a upper level Paragon Tier, it certainly indicates it is not exactly common.)

I suppose if the Romans had invented airships, you might still have been able to find one or two during the ensuing Dark Ages ... and I'm sure someone could probably think of something like an airship that the Romans did invent that did stick around for ages afterwards. LOL.

I'll get over it, I'm sure.

 

[Scribble]

Eh... For some reason some tech stuff doesn't bug me at all in my games, while other types just annoy the hell out of me.

Guns + D&D... yuck. (in my opinion)

Airships + D&D Cool! (Again in my opinion)

I'm not entirely sure why.

 

[catsclaw227]

Guns + D&D... yuck. (in my opinion)

Airships + D&D Cool! (Again in my opinion)

Me? This.

 

[Scribble]

Thinking about it a little more... Maybe it's the level of absurdity involved with the item that makes it slightly more acceptable...

Things like guns bug me in D&D because well... they're just guns.

Things like airships... They kind of assult my sensibilities in a way. Even the closest things we have to them (derrigibles) aren't the same. They force me to use my imagination simply because it's an idea I know wouldn't really work out in the real world, yet in D&D it does.

I like that.

 

[the Jester]

Except the good ol' Leo was born during the Renaissance, a time of enlightenment and high civizilation that came centuries after the very "Points of Lightish" Dark and Medieval Ages ...

Er, that's why I said "born a couple hundred years earlier."

Maybe I was unclear; what I meant was, you could have an analog to da Vinci in your PoL setting that could clean up the potential discontinuity of having steampunk in your dark ages style.