Oi! But my wings be expensive!

[Petrosian]

[/B][/QUOTE]

However if you use them simply to fly in battle and tactical situatiuons, make yourself a cloak of "Fly" that is either charged or is command word activated. It's cheaper, and does most of what you need.

This is a custom item and thus its price is set by the GM.

This is the one "backdoor" in magic items.

Actually it is an example of bad GMing.

When the Gm sets the price of a custom item he should, by DND, compare it to other items already priced and in use and set its value accordingly.

In short, if you make a new item and come to the conclusion that its the better choice because of its price over an existing item already priced, you priced your new item wrong.

For example, a buffing spell lasts for 1 hour/level. If you ignore sleepy time, "early morning prep time" you could have a command word activiated item that lasts for hours rather than forking out for permanent bonuses.

See above.

if the Gm prices his custom items correctly, then you should be "on the fence" as to whether your "new toy" is worth it or whether you should save a little more for the already established permanent ones. you should see the "price for effect" as equal, not lopsided in favor of the custom item.

If the Gm prices the one-per-day item much cheaper than the always, he should be planning on showing its limitations as worth the price saved... decent number of nighttime raids, frequent use of dispel to shut it off until tomorrow, and so on. If he does not plan on showing these in play, so that it is "almost as good as the all-day ones" then they should cost "almost the same."

pices for Wi are set by comparison with their chart only serving as a beginning ballpark element.

"its almost as good and way cheaper" is just another way of saying "it is priced wrong."

See DMG and TnB for more info.

 

[Oni]

I'm not at all convinced that a simple Darkness spell would not counter or dispel the light effect on the mask. It says that you shed light as a Light spell. And the Darkness description says it can counter or dispel a Light spell. By "counter", are you saying that they mean "counterspell" rather than "cancel out effects for the duration". I guess that's plausible, but I'd certainly like to know for sure since I'm going to have to by one of those tacky masks rather than the stylish wings now.

When they say counter they are refering to using it as a counter spell, spells with opposite effects are able to counter one another as noted in the spell descriptions (as this is an exception to the general rules regarding counterspelling). Counter is a set term in 3E and you can see the same type of wording in regards to haste and slow, as well as reduce and enlarge. When speaking about stopping an already existant effect, rather than one that is in the process of being cast, it falls under dispel, and dispelling the effects on such a magic item doesn't last very long at all.

 

[0-hr]

Ok, I can buy that "Cancel" and "Counter" are distinct effects. It's a moot point for me now anyway as I decided to sell my sword and buy the wings regardless. Sometimes style is just too important to skimp on.

PS: I still think that Forgotten Realms arbitrarily inflates the power level for the sake of sales revenue.

 

[Rill]

If memory serves, the mask originally appeared in the FR adventure centered on Myth Dranor. That version had an additional wieght limit (carrying capacity for the mask) in its description. Of course I seem to remember those adventures were produced at the very beginnings of 3E, and definitely prior to any errata in the core books. The MoF version seemed to drop the weight restriction, whether intentionally or not. Anyway, just some background info on the origins of the mask, and why it may be priced slighly differently than other flying items. (One player in our party has the wings, another the mask as written in the adventure, and each has had multiple opportunities to wish they had the other player's version.)

-Rill

 

[Petrosian]

When they say counter they are refering to using it as a counter spell, spells with opposite effects are able to counter one another as noted in the spell descriptions (as this is an exception to the general rules regarding counterspelling). Counter is a set term in 3E and you can see the same type of wording in regards to haste and slow, as well as reduce and enlarge. When speaking about stopping an already existant effect, rather than one that is in the process of being cast, it falls under dispel, and dispelling the effects on such a magic item doesn't last very long at all.

This is, simply put, wrong.

COUNTERSPELL and a spell which counters/is countered by are TWO seperate things.

If a spell is already in effect and you have a counter/is countered by spell you can use the matter to shut off the former.

The most specific example of this is HASTE/SLOW.

this is from the FAQ

" When an opposite spell is used to negate an effect that is
already in place (such as using slow spell to counter and
dispel a haste spell), is the success of the dispel automatic,
or is a level check required? Does the subject or the caster
of the spell being countered and dispelled get a saving
throw?
Two opposite spells simply negate each other. No dispel
check is required, no saving throw is allowed, and spell
resistance does not apply. "

The specific reference is to "already in place."

 

[HeavyG]

This is, simply put, wrong.

COUNTERSPELL and a spell which counters/is countered by are TWO seperate things.

If a spell is already in effect and you have a counter/is countered by spell you can use the matter to shut off the former.

The most specific example of this is HASTE/SLOW.

this is from the FAQ

" When an opposite spell is used to negate an effect that is
already in place (such as using slow spell to counter and
dispel a haste spell), is the success of the dispel automatic,
or is a level check required? Does the subject or the caster
of the spell being countered and dispelled get a saving
throw?
Two opposite spells simply negate each other. No dispel
check is required, no saving throw is allowed, and spell
resistance does not apply. "

The specific reference is to "already in place."

I don't think so.

Haste says it dispels and counters slow.

The "dispels" part is what the FAQ is talking about.

The "counters" part refers to counterspelling, IMO.

 

[Petrosian]

I don't think so.

Haste says it dispels and counters slow.

The "dispels" part is what the FAQ is talking about.

The "counters" part refers to counterspelling, IMO.

Where do they find these guys?

Line from darkness...

"Darkness counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower level."

Line from haste...

"Haste dispels and counters slow."

Now maybe its just me, but i would NOT derive from this that darkness/light behaves differently. perhaps you do? in which case, the haste/slow example would not be valid.

Your campaign. Your rules.

enjoy your games.

 

[Hammerhead]

I think the downside, other than looking like a moron wearing a feathered mask, is that in a nice, dark tunnel your light is visible a long way off. Way before you can see them, they can see you. When I'm exploring a dungeon, I would not want a light spell illuminating my head, giving some drow archer a nice bullseye to aim at, thank you very much.

 

[0-hr]

Well, how about when some smart alec casts Hold Person on you? The guy with the 22,000gp cloak plumets to his death. The cheap bastard with the 13,000gp mask just floats there happily.

Maybe it's just me, but light (which can apparently be shut off with a measly 2nd level Darkness spell), just isn't such a penalty that it justifies 9,000gp and the risk of death-by-paralisys (or death by being in a small space) to avoid.

In my campaign, if I weren't outlawing Forgotten Realms alltogether (which I am), then that mask would cost about twice what it's listed as.

 

[Chun-tzu]

I think it's a mistake. The Mask should be more expensive than the Wings. You aren't going to do much flying indoors with the wings, but that's not a problem with the mask. The mask doesn't necessarily make you that much more visible than the wings, either. On a bright day, you're far more likely to notice those giant flapping wings than a slight glow. Thus, I've always assumed that the price of the Mask was based on pre-errata Wings (but I didn't know it's been adapted from another supplement; thanks, Rill!).