Oi! But my wings be expensive!

[Ridley's Cohort]

I think it's a mistake. The Mask should be more expensive than the Wings. You aren't going to do much flying indoors with the wings, but that's not a problem with the mask. The mask doesn't necessarily make you that much more visible than the wings, either. On a bright day, you're far more likely to notice those giant flapping wings than a slight glow. Thus, I've always assumed that the price of the Mask was based on pre-errata Wings (but I didn't know it's been adapted from another supplement; thanks, Rill!).

On a bright day, yes. My experience is that over 4 out of 5 combats happen in other lighting conditions. NPCs and PCs alike tend to use hit and run tactics at night, for obvious reasons.

 

[0-hr]

Pricing the mask according to the guidelines in the DMG, it should cost a little under 30,000gp. Pricing it by comparing it to existing items, it should cost about 20,000gp. But because it is in the Forgotten Realms, it costs 13,000gp. Makes sense to me.

 

[Oni]

This is, simply put, wrong.

COUNTERSPELL and a spell which counters/is countered by are TWO seperate things.

If a spell is already in effect and you have a counter/is countered by spell you can use the matter to shut off the former.

The most specific example of this is HASTE/SLOW.

this is from the FAQ

" When an opposite spell is used to negate an effect that is
already in place (such as using slow spell to counter and
dispel a haste spell), is the success of the dispel automatic,
or is a level check required? Does the subject or the caster
of the spell being countered and dispelled get a saving
throw?
Two opposite spells simply negate each other. No dispel
check is required, no saving throw is allowed, and spell
resistance does not apply. "

The specific reference is to "already in place."

Yeah......and then what? Ok, you use Darkness to dispel the light affect, the light affect is on a magic item, meaning unless you've got Mordy's Disjunction hidden in your back pocket somewhere, it's coming back. Using the dispel option of Darkness uses up the spell, and if you just cast darkness on the item then you get the big black blob effect I described above. The quote you give simply means you don't have to roll like you do with dispel magic.


If Countering and Dispelling are not seperate functions, pray tell why do they bother to list both options in every single spell of that type. I'll tell you why, because countering and dispelling are seperate functions. The counter function works just like regular counterspelling except that you can use it to stop the opposite spell as well as the same spell. The dispel function is for an affect that is already existing, and if you use it to dispel its opposite both effects are gone, no trace left. Now if you do that to a permanent magic item well then it can only be supressed.


What part of this doesn't make any sense, or is in conflict with the rules?

 

[Chun-tzu]

On a bright day, yes. My experience is that over 4 out of 5 combats happen in other lighting conditions. NPCs and PCs alike tend to use hit and run tactics at night, for obvious reasons.

How many of those conditions are at night, which is the only time the light is likely to make any difference whatsoever? How many of those times is the party the one who is choosing the conditions of the fight, rather than being attacked and defending themselves?

The light of the Mask is a disadvantage ONLY when attempting to surprise opponents at night. The 20-foot wingspan for the Wings is a much bigger restriction. Flying indoors is a huge advantage! It can help you avoid traps, to move more silently, and to stay away from opponents in indoor battles.

There are people arguing that the light is a disadvantage, but it's a minor one. Is there anyone who can really argue that the Winged Mask should be actually be 40% cheaper than the Wings of Flying?

 

[Oni]

How many of those conditions are at night, which is the only time the light is likely to make any difference whatsoever? How many of those times is the party the one who is choosing the conditions of the fight, rather than being attacked and defending themselves?

The light of the Mask is a disadvantage ONLY when attempting to surprise opponents at night. The 20-foot wingspan for the Wings is a much bigger restriction. Flying indoors is a huge advantage! It can help you avoid traps, to move more silently, and to stay away from opponents in indoor battles.

There are people arguing that the light is a disadvantage, but it's a minor one. Is there anyone who can really argue that the Winged Mask should be actually be 40% cheaper than the Wings of Flying?

Light is a much bigger disadvantage when you bring Invisibility into the equation. If I were scouting using the wings I would most certainly go under the influence of an invisibility spell, which you really can't do with the mask. Also ruins that tired mage combo of improved invis, and flying to avoid ones enemies.